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The Gamer's Quarter
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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 Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I used a guide to get all the bugs. (I guess that's one self-limiting factor with guides: with stuff like energy tanks in Metroid and Hearts in Zelda, I feel compelled to get as many as possible... maybe if I was doing this sans guide I'd feel ok about not hunting things down so much.)
Anyway, I feel the bug hunt should be a model for other "collect a thons"
* give a subtle hint when there's something to be found (the jangling sound effect)
* make the individual pieces unique... wouldn't the heart pieces be just a bit cooler if each one had, I dunno, some kind of name? like "heart of empathy"/"heart of courage"/"heart of vision" or even something like "heart of glass"/"heart of wood"/"heart of steel"? They could still be homogenous (i.e. collect any 4 or 5 to add to the heartmeter) , but it would feel less gratuitous, and make a possible checklist / journal more feasible.
Actually, the bughunt took this one further, with Agitha having a saying for each type (some a little creepy) Also, I liked how they filled up Agitha's house, I always like when you have background animals following their own agenda, like the butterflies in the background of Donkey Kong Country.
Also, man... does anyone else think ripping out Poe's souls is kind of rude? What's their backstory? (I mean, I guess you can pomo-out on Link's dungeon invasions, but at least most of the small guys in those rooms regenerate...)
Finally, what this game is most missing: a little animation of Wolf link shaking himself dry after taking a swim.
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Redd
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Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Lost in an animated labrynth...
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Toto wrote: | | I am so disgusted and disenchanted by the Sky Dungeon I can't bring myself to turn on the game and power through. |
Same. I haven't played in a month (guessing) because of this. I think I might have my friend beat it. I don't know. Aaaaaah.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| You can't even peep over the side and see ground, there's just sky above and below! |
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | You can't even peep over the side and see ground, there's just sky above and below! |
it's clouds, not just blue
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: | | Harveyjames wrote: | | You can't even peep over the side and see ground, there's just sky above and below! |
it's clouds, not just blue |
My mistake!
Also my 'ground' was inaccurate too, because really, you'd expect to see trees, and houses and mountains and ravines and things, not just brown 'ground'! That would be just crazy! |
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | kirkjerk wrote: | | Harveyjames wrote: | | You can't even peep over the side and see ground, there's just sky above and below! |
it's clouds, not just blue |
My mistake!
Also my 'ground' was inaccurate too, because really, you'd expect to see trees, and houses and mountains and ravines and things, not just brown 'ground'! That would be just crazy! |
Look, I admit it would be cooler to see small Hyrule (though they might have to figure out what surrounds Hyrule..) but there's a difference between it being generic blue beneath, and well done and nice looking clouds... especially during the boss fight, it's nice and stormy...
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Lestrade
Bug Fister
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, I just loved the sky dungeon boss fight. Dammit, why can't this game have a boss rush mode? |
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Lestrade wrote: | | Yes, I just loved the sky dungeon boss fight. Dammit, why can't this game have a boss rush mode? |
I wasn't crazy about the mechanics of that particular fight (in the balance between game logic and drama, the designers picked drama almost every time) but it looked great.
These games are so in need of a boss rush. Wind Waker had one, right? Albeit black and white? Actually, I wish these games would really cater to people who wanted to show off the title and have a "boss select", ala DK64. Yeah, that game was an awful collect-a-thon, but it had some great boss fights, that you could return to at will from a menu.
But I'm sure the designers of Zelda think that would some how cheapen the thrill of it all, that it only really counts if you've trudged through a dungeon to get there.
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helicopterp
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Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: | Anyway, I feel the bug hunt should be a model for other "collect a thons"
* make the individual pieces unique... wouldn't the heart pieces be just a bit cooler if each one had, I dunno, some kind of name? like "heart of empathy"/"heart of courage"/"heart of vision" or even something like "heart of glass"/"heart of wood"/"heart of steel"? They could still be homogenous (i.e. collect any 4 or 5 to add to the heartmeter) , but it would feel less gratuitous, and make a possible checklist / journal more feasible. |
This is one of the things that Okami did very, very well. There were plenty of different collect-lists, but they were all portrayed in this kind of journalistic format on the menu screen. I'm not sure whether it was a deliberate nod to the Pikmin games (the Piktopedia in #2 especially) but both handle their collecting in style. Same deal with the picture-taking in Beyond Good and Evil. Developers should take heed of this.
| kirkjerk wrote: | | These games are so in need of a boss rush. |
Majora's Mask actually implemented something like this that worked very elegantly in the context of the game. Because the effects of beating each dungeon were nullified every time you went back to the first day, if you entered them after having beaten them, you could warp from the entryway of each straight to the boss. Not only is this a good way around making a boss-rush menu feature, which I'm sure would be anathema to Zelda designers, but beating each boss again would of course re-trigger the effects of beating the dungeon on the surrounding area. Complementing the smooth implementation of the feature is the fact that the boss fights in Majora's Mask are, well, boss, and the dungeons (perhaps because of the strict time frame) seem much less arbitrary than in other Zeldas.
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: | | Quote: | | These games are so in need of a boss rush. |
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Majora's Mask actually implemented something like this that worked very elegantly in the context of the game. Because the effects of beating each dungeon were nullified every time you went back to the first day, if you entered them after having beaten them, you could warp from the entryway of each straight to the boss. Not only is this a good way around making a boss-rush menu feature, which I'm sure would be anathema to Zelda designers, but beating each boss again would of course re-trigger the effects of beating the dungeon on the surrounding area. Complementing the smooth implementation of the feature is the fact that the boss fights in Majora's Mask are, well, boss, and the dungeons (perhaps because of the strict time frame) seem much less arbitrary than in other Zeldas. |
I might need to come back to Majora's Mask. Maybe I should sell out for the GC set. Philosophically I'm in love with the theme; in practice, I didn't get very far in it.
The anathema aspect I find irritating. You're absolutely correct, but it smacks of such effete artisan-ism... "oh no, you can't possibly really appreciate this boss, really get the flavor, the karma of what it's all about until you've done 16 rooms full of pushing and shoving puzzles and small little fights. We're not your boss fight pimps! (No matter how formulaic and tradition-bound our dungeon/miniboss/boss setups are)"
It's a little funny how the graphics get more and more real but the puzzle aspect stays pretty damn fixed.
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Nana Komatsu
weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 1293
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helicopterp
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Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 1435
Location: Philadelphia
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Did you see the link on there for the Midna one? I know you did.
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Nana Komatsu
weak sauce
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Just finished it.
I didn't feel like the ending sequence, from final dungeon through boss battle to credits, was all that special.
I remember digging Wind Waker a lot more for many reasons.
Still, 50 hours in, it's not like I'm not gonna finish the mutha.
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Oddly, the morning after finishing the game slashdot brought my attention to the complete script ( http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/game/928519.html , "Game Script" link)
What's kind of funny is the guy's writing style, kind of like a more literate Comic Book Guy...
| Quote: | This is of course the second guide I have partaken in, the first
being a Gold Medal Guide I wrote for the oft-shunned but oddly
addictive Star Fox Assault. It's a draughty little game, open
as cannon fodder to those more willing to mince their teeth
at its flaws, but it exposed to me the world of guide
crafting, a world I have only approached with a detached torpidity since my
last guide, one where I can espouse my love affair with the game and yet am
still on due trajectory to paint around its corners and write anything but a
full length guide. Twilight Princess was a likely candidate, but the
availability of the Wii sunk that battle ship rather swiftly as I spent two
weeks on a gladiatorial blood lust making Walmart employers quit in a fit of
rage, swearing they'd die happy if they never heard the word Wii again. |
Amazing to see the amount of dialog in there. I had a feeling it was something like that, but still. (It would be interesting to see how the script writers plot it out)
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