The Gamer's Quarter :: View topic - The end of 06 is too much

The Gamer's Quarter
A quarterly publication

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

The end of 06 is too much
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4

The Gamer's Quarter Forum Index -> Club for the Study and Appreciation of Interactive Audio Visual Media

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame

Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject:

SuperWes wrote:

Who protests video games?

who dictates how i spend my money?
_________________

Dracko
.

Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject:

Why not protest video games? _________________ "This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

friedchicken
.

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 496
Location: Port Land, OR

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:36 pm Post subject:

SuperWes wrote:

I do disagree!

See? I knew it!!

SuperWes wrote:

On the Launch

With that said, why does it matter to you? Sure it's going to piss off people who feel like they need to have the system, but something tells me you aren't those people. As soon as they said $600 you were out of the running anyway. The $600 system is a crazy risk, but it's a risk they're taking that has fuck all to do with how well you enjoy the PS2. Actually, it probably increases the value of the PS2 because it's insane for Sony to just drop support in favor of a system that will take at least two years to make its way into a high enough number of households to justify the development costs of the games on it.

I was cautiously ready to pre-order, even with the $600 price. This was assuming that they would be able to actually fill pre-orders. Silly me. I said it during a discussion a while back about the PS2 launch, and I'll say it again: All short-shipping the system does is set it up as a goldmine for eBay sellers and other people who have spare cash and time to go sit outside the door starting the night before preorders are opened (I should note that this time is actually worse than the PS2 launch-- back then you could stroll into a store six months before the launch and slap down $50 to assure your preorder. This time, the event of preorders opening was as bad or worse than actually trying to find a non-preordered PS2 on its launch day). After that launch I wondered why Sony, knowing they would never be able to ship a supply to meet the demand, kept the system price at $300 (or whatever it actually was, I don't recall), so that everyone could run out and sell them for $600+ on eBay. Instead, I think they should have doubled the retail price to sell it to all the people who were willing to go out to eBay and spend that much, and then dropped it in price once the supply was up to par with demand.

But, shockingly enough, Sony has done almost the same thing again with the PS3, just even more calculated to get everyone all stirred up and talking about it. So the only reason I can think of for this behavior is that the short-shipping (or rather the early release, to look at it a little differently) is entirely planned by Sony to get everyone worked into a lather over the launch. It just smacks of an 'angle' to me-- you know, even bad publicity is good publicity, a la GTA.

Sony is entitled to behave this way with the launch-- they obviously have made a killing on the PS2, but I can't help but think that they're alienating more people than just me-- I would guess their older fans, who can't always go fight hand to hand with people for the right to preorder a console that's a few months off, in favor of their new, younger fans who have more disposable income. It's just a very disheartening move, I think.

SuperWes wrote:

IOn Lik-Sang

I won't go point to point on this one, but for me and I suspect many other game playing individuals, this is less a point of it happening to Lik-Sang but more a point of who could be next. Which I don't think is unreasonable paranoia at all. Sony is huge, and they can behave like they're huge. But they don't have to. So what if a person in one region wants to buy a system for another region? I've always disagreed with region lockouts, be they for games or movies or whatever. Besides, if I want to pay to modify a piece of electronics to play a Japanese movie, it should just void the warranty.

SuperWes wrote:

IOn Locally Owned Businesses
Sony is not intentionally screwing over locally-owned businesses by short-shipping them systems. It's a fact that smaller businesses don't make as much money for Sony as bigger businesses do. I don't think there's any hidden agenda to screw over the little guy - there just isn't a lot of incentive to support the little guy. I'm guessing that distribution is based on percentages. Best Buy, Target, Wal-Mart, etc. make the most money for Sony, so it's obvious that they're going to get the higher number of systems.

It's the same reason Sony doesn't send TGQ review copies and doesn't really pay us any attention at E3. It's nothing personal, it just doesn't make sense for them to go out of their way to help us out when helping someone who has a bigger voice will make them more money. If we based our coverage entirely on who was willing to help us out we'd cover nothing but Nippon Ichi and Atlus games from now on. That's basically the equivalent of blaming Sony for not supporting locally owned businesses with launch systems.

I think that the impact on small businesses is a side effect of this broke ass launch, really. But this is a much bigger argument than I feel like getting into right now. Suffice it to say that in general manufacturers like Sony are hastening the demise of small local electronics and specialty retailers, in concert with big boxes like Wal-Mart, Target, etc. I don't think there is anyone who will argue with that, as opposed to arguing about whether or not it should be happening. I understand how business works, and yeah, what's happening is good business, but I don't care for it. I for one would rather pay a little more to be able to support a local store instead of going to the hugeass Best Buy. The scale of the sales in question is such that even if they sell more expensive systems to local stores, they still end up making more money off of big boxes. I know I'm in the minority, but I'll spend my money where and how I choose to, just as you will.

SuperWes wrote:

IOn everything else.
Yes, Sony is making some bad decisions, but in the end the results of their bad decisions are enough to hurt them without artificially deciding to base your purchases on "evil Sony" propaganda.

It's like the conversation I had with Don Marco last night while playing PSO. I mentioned that the DS is probably my favorite system of all time. His response was "how can a system that has a revision within 12 months be the best system of all time?" This struck me as odd because the existance of a revision hadn't even crossed my mind. I hadn't separated the DS from the DS Lite because although one's a bit nicer than the other, they're essentially the exact same thing. The games and whether they've been worth the money and effort you've put into them should be the only thing that matters.

We're not talking about a life or death situation. We're talking about videogames. Who protests video games?

Actually I don't think Sony will get bitten in the ass for their decisions. I think we're in for more of the same, magnified considerable, for their next launch. I'm disappointed that they aren't getting bitten in the ass for it, but most of the people I grew up playing games who should be pissed off by their behavior are going out and buying PS3's to keep their kids from whining about how much they want one.

I'm not basing my decision on 'evil Sony' propaganda. I've observed their behaviour, I don't like it, and I'm deciding to spend the money I had saved for a PS3 on Wii games instead (before you say it, I know Nintendo are a bunch of creeps in their own way too, I just haven't seen as consistently assinine actions on their part as I have with Sony-- at least not for several console generations). And on imports for my Saturn and Dreamcast. I do the exact same things with other products whose manufacturers conduct questionable and/or offensive business. It's not just about the games and if they're fun-- that's a pretty short-sighted way of looking at it. For once I agree (if only slightly) with DonMarco.

Frankly, I'm tired of just shrugging and shaking my head and going out to stand in line to buy the scarce, overpriced system anyway. The Lik-Sang issue is only part of it, as is the launch (or rather preorder) nonsense, and the impact on local small businesses. Also a consideration for me is that I'm not in a position to just go out and buy all the games for all the systems anymore. I want to buy a house sometime soon, and I can't buy two ridiculously expensive systems and one moderately expensive one, plus a ton of games for all of them games that have risen in sticker price across the board. I'm going to throw my money toward just the one of them. And once again, it's not about the price at all. If I have the money, I'm willing to throw it toward a game console. There are limits of course, but like I said earlier, if anything the PS3 should have been priced even higher, especially given the prices they'll command on auction sites.

And you're 100% correct, it is just games, but games are pretty important to me-- otherwise why would I be posting to the site? I'm guessing you feel the same way. I'm not pissed off or even angry about Sony. I'm just not going to give them my business. So yeah, I'm protesting video games. If more people were willing to do it, we might have even better games and consoles, and maybe even a (more) civilized, (more) reasonable launch one of these days.

Wow, my longest post, evar.

Harveyjames
the meteor kid

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject:

Buy a Wii! Then you will not have to write such long posts because you will be CHILLY CHILL

friedchicken
.

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 496
Location: Port Land, OR

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject:

Don't I know it. That Wii is so bought!

dhex
Breeder
Breeder

Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Actually I don't think Sony will get bitten in the ass for their decisions.

don't worry, if it's not this decision it'll be another one they fuck up.
_________________

SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title

Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3725

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:46 pm Post subject:

friedchicken wrote:

So the only reason I can think of for this behavior is that the short-shipping (or rather the early release, to look at it a little differently) is entirely planned by Sony to get everyone worked into a lather over the launch.

Huh? No way man. Sony's not intentionally doing their launch like this to create a stir, they're doing it because they can't reasonably do it any other way without losing a shit-ton of cash. I said in my first post that they're launching in name only because their share holders are demanding it. It's true. The Xbox 360 has rushed Sony into the next generation, and if they don't catch up it will be seen as a weakness to the people who pay their bills. They're already losing hundreds of dollars on each system even though they cost $600, so it makes no sense for them to sell a ton of them until they can get the manufacturing cost low enough to actually make some money - or at least - not lose a lot of money. They're balancing everything so that they don't end up purging cash.

And you and I both know that if they bumped up the cost to Ebay prices with the first set of systems people would get royally pissed off. Having a system I bought for $600 decrease by more than $100 within a year of launch would be enough to turn their most fervent fans into Sony haters.

friedchicken wrote:

So what if a person in one region wants to buy a system for another region?

I totally agree, but it didn't really matter at all until the systems became region free. How much is a PSP in Europe anyways? I've heard that it's much more expensive than in America. That gives enough of a reason for European buyers to import, and enough of a reason to piss off Sony Europe.

friedchicken wrote:

I think that the impact on small businesses is a side effect of this broke ass launch, really.

Exactly. I agree in principal, but since this is primarily a result of their broken launch I don't really think it's an issue in this instance.

friedchicken wrote:

Actually I don't think Sony will get bitten in the ass for their decisions.

Here's where we disagree. I think Sony's making a lot of bad moves, and if there's any justice in this world they will end up with them losing their control over the console market - at least in the US. The system price isn't mass market friendly at all, and with so few consoles available they're not giving any third parties a reason to make games for it. Who would make a game with a budget that's 10 times as high as a Wii or PS2 game for a market that's 1/30th the size? Third party games are going to have to go multiplatform, and with the ease of Xbox Live and the geekiness of achievement points I'm personally more interested in the 360 versions. I'll probably get a PS3 this year, but I doubt I'll end up with more than 3 games (unless I'm forced to buy more than that with a bundled system). Contrast this with the Wii, which I already have three games fully paid off on, and the 360, which I bought a game for last week and am planning on buying two more for this week alone, and you've got something I'm only really interested in because I know some time down the line someone's going to make something that justifies the price tag (and I want to play flOw).

I'm hoping that I'm in the minority here and that most people aren't as stupid as me. I want Sony to have to work for this. I'm convinced that eventually they're going to need to actually improve the parts of the industry that are broken if they want to stay in first place, but right now it seems like they're just taking the worst parts of the industry and building an entire system out of them. Nintendo's shown that they're ready to evolve things, and Sony's already shown that they're scared of this by ripping off their controller. It'll be interested to see how this whole thing turns out.

In fact, the more I keep writing about this, the more convinced I am that I should wait and see if the PS3 turns into another PSP before I commit to buying one (but don't tell Christina that or she won't let me buy it if I should happen to change my mind back).

friedchicken wrote:

So yeah, I'm protesting video games.

Well, see. There's kind of a fine line here. There's a difference between not buying a PS3 at launch because you don't want to put up with the line and not buying one in five years when it's $200 and there are 100 games for under $20 that you want to play on it because you weren't able to get one at launch. One of these is a sane decision, and the other one is pretty crazy. I'm saying that there's no real reason to hold a grudge or put such a big emphasis on who manufactures the systems. There aren't good guys and bad guys, and to turn this into anything but, "I want to play this game and I'm willing to buy a system for it," is leaning toward the side of the guy who's denying himself great games because Sony didn't make enough systems five years ago.

-Wes
_________________

friedchicken
.

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 496
Location: Port Land, OR

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:48 am Post subject:

Wes, you make a hell of a lot of good points on most counts. I just wanted to say that since I probably won't comment on every single thing you've said. Suffice it to say that I was looking for a good explanation of the Sony launch, and you gave it to me. It's much better than the ones that I've seen put forward in the past regarding the PS2 launch by people who don't know shit about economics.

SuperWes wrote:

And you and I both know that if they bumped up the cost to Ebay prices with the first set of systems people would get royally pissed off. Having a system I bought for $600 decrease by more than $100 within a year of launch would be enough to turn their most fervent fans into Sony haters.

I've actually been really shocked by the number of people who without question stand in line and drop the amount of money that they do. I mean, if a $600 price tag didn't scare most people away, I'm not sure what would. It's the same sort of surprise that I experience when I drive past a Best Buy and the plasma TVs are flying out the front door like they're giving them away. I guess everybody just throws them on the credit card and worries about it later.

SuperWes wrote:

I think Sony's making a lot of bad moves, and if there's any justice in this world they will end up with them losing their control over the console market - at least in the US.

I should clarify my opinion a little: I do think Sony is making stupid moves that could potentially sink their console business. But do I think that these stupid move place them in any real jeopardy right now? Sadly, no. I think the American consumer will buy most of what gets put in front of them, with UMD movies as an exception, maybe (I noticed the other day that it's been a long time since I've seen a movie advertised with a UMD release). Now if developers start to go elsewhere, and there aren't many games to put in front of the consumer, clearly that will put Sony in a tight spot. We'll have to see. But I would think a lot of developers make games for Sony because hey, it's Sony. There's a lot of brand power there.

SuperWes wrote:

There's a difference between not buying a PS3 at launch because you don't want to put up with the line and not buying one in five years when it's $200 and there are 100 games for under $20 that you want to play on it because you weren't able to get one at launch.

The problem with that is this: chronically, I end up enjoying games that have short production runs and disappear very quickly off of store shelves. A few years back I was ready to finally buy an Xbox for JSRF. Surprise! No stores still had any copies of it. Fortunately for me a few months later they released the Xbox with the JSRF/SegaGT pack in, but this has been an exception. So it just doesn't end up working out that way that you describe most of the time.

Using the PS2 as an example, it's been a long time since there has been a US PS2 release that would have sold the system for me, but that's a supposition since I own a PS2, and it's hard to say what game would have really made me buy the console, as cheap as it is now.

Granted, there have been a lot of franchises on the PS2 that my wife and I have enjoyed, but most of them have lately lost their luster a bit, so while they might have sold me on a PS2 at one point but might not no. Resident Evil has moved to semi-multiplatform. Onimusha isn't what it used to be, and SSX On Tour was downright craptastic, especially compared to a game like SSX Tricky.

Look, the point is, I'm not holding a grudge, but with this kind of money at stake, and the amount of time I have these days to play games, I'm going with what is clearly for me a superior product, the Wii. It's cheaper, easier to get, and frankly it has a better sounding lineup than the PS3. The point is, there's not enough good on the horizon for the PS3 (again, compared to the Wii) that I'm not willing to put up with Sony's Crazy Bullshit, and overlook their shitty practices (incidentally, while I see your point about the EU PSP nonsense, it's a hell of a turnoff to someone who probably buys as many imports as domestic games). Let's face it though, Sony could start to feel the pain as a result of some of the things we've discussed, and they could change a little for the better. If that happens, I'll still be here, and maybe then I'll think about getting a PS3. We'll just have to see.

By the same respect, I completely understand your position. From what I can tell, you play a hell of a lot of games, and playing games is extremely important to you. You're an early adopter, and that's a great place to be- it's where I was around the Genesis/SNES era (launches, by the way, where I casually walked into the store a day or so after the release, and just bought one-- amazing). Now it's an expensive place to be, but you don't need me to tell you that, right?

Good discussion Wes. Thanks!

Shapermc
Hot Sake!

Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:54 am Post subject:

friedchicken wrote:

(I noticed the other day that it's been a long time since I've seen a movie advertised with a UMD release).

Interesting that you bring this up. I don't know how much TV you watch, but I don't watch a lot of it. Mainly I am just half paying attention to what my wife is watching while I either play a game or am on the computer. Well, recently, MI3 has had way more advertising for the video release than is probably necessary. When the commercials first came out the tag-line at the end said "Coming Nov 7th on DVD and Blu-Ray." This was like... a month ago? Anyways, since then I noticed that they changed the saying to "Coming to DVD and HD." I didn't think much of it at first, but then I finally paid attention to it the other night and at the bottom it said "blu-ray and hd-dvd"

In the immortal words of Shang-Tsung: "IT HAS BEGUN"
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

Lestrade
Bug Fister

Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Toronto

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:13 pm Post subject:

I knew I smelled Mortal Kombat somewhere.

friedchicken
.

Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 496
Location: Port Land, OR

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject:

Shapermc wrote:

Well, recently, MI3 has had way more advertising for the video release than is probably necessary.

Funny, but that's exactly the ad I had in mind! It seemed for a while, maybe a year ago, that every single movie, no matter how crappy, had the "also on UMD" tag at the end of its commercial. BUT NO MORE!

I'm wondering how many movies EB/Gamestop still stocks for the PSP. So does UMD as a format now officially count as a 'flop'?

OtakupunkX
.

Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 730

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:19 pm Post subject:

Monster House just came out on UMD, apparently. I saw the commercial the other day, the first time in awhile I actually watched TV.

Shapermc
Hot Sake!

Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:39 pm Post subject:

friedchicken wrote:

I'm wondering how many movies EB/Gamestop still stocks for the PSP. So does UMD as a format now officially count as a 'flop'?

I doubt it. I expect it to continue in a similar manner to the cartoon episodes on GBA carts.
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

Nana Komatsu
weak sauce

Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 1293

Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:39 pm Post subject:

Capcom Puzzle World for the PSP got pushed back to February of next year. This, along with Lumines Plus being delayed has really depressed me as someone into puzzle games.

Display posts from previous:

	The Gamer's Quarter Forum Index -> Club for the Study and Appreciation of Interactive Audio Visual Media	All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum