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GSL .
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 725 Location: Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: Guilty Gear Dust Strikers |
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I consider myself to be a pretty big Guilty Gear fan (my complete lack of possession of Isuka aside), and I was absolutely horrified last week when I realized that I had somehow let Dust Strikers on the DS sneak out the release door without my noticing! Fueled by the panic that can only come with an ominous sense of impending doom, I hastened to the nearest Software Etc. and procured a copy. All was then right with the world.
Almost.
I had read various previews and even a few reviews (which makes my negligence of ownership all the more embarrassing) and was quite prepared for the 4-player melee action on multiple tiers--in fact, I was even looking forward to the idea. But, well, the controls are a bit off. Not off as in unresponsible or counter intuitive, because they work well. It's just that Guilty Gear DS is no longer the fighting game it is in the console. The four face buttons give you strong and weak attacks, a Roman Cancel button (this is kind of nice, though I mash all four buttons at once out of habit) and then a special move button which, combined with a direction on the D-pad, produces one of the many special character moves from GGDS' larger console brothers. Initially, it felt like cheating, sortof how you can assign different moves to the C-stick in the Gamecube port of Capcom vs. SNK 2. Initially, I really didn't like it.
I forced myself to keep playing and realized that it was less of a Guilty Gear game and more of a (Faust forgive me) Smash Bros.-type of title. I couldn't get into the depths of control offered by Guilty Gear X2 because they weren't in the DS title at all; instead, the game was meant to be a simple brawler.
Upon reconciling myself to that, fact, I grew to despise GGDS much less. I'm not sure I can say I like it, but I'm not struck by the compelling NEED to go trade it in for something like The Rub Rabbits, Metroid Prime Pinball, or Meteos.
So, has anyone else played the game? What are your impressions? |
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friedchicken .
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:40 am Post subject: |
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I didn't like the look of GGDS, maybe because it seems a lot like Isuka, which I thought was a cop-out for the series. I probably won't get it, not only based on is departure from the typical fighting engine, but also because I've sort of decided to stop getting GG games until they release a 'real' sequel, not the endless march of RELOAD, SLASH, etc. Not that this game really falls into that category so much.
That said, if you really want Isuka, I'll trade ya for it. Cheap. |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:21 am Post subject: |
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I got it for $9 at Circut City. Haven't played it yet. I'll let you know when I do!
-Wes _________________
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squidlarkin .
Joined: 10 Dec 2005 Posts: 100
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Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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On the one hand, this is exactly the kind of thing I've been wanting to see in fighting games for a while now. Simplify the controls, get away from the need for precise inputs just to get the character to do what you want, and then all that you really have to focus on is strategy and timing. Like it should be.
On the other hand, just lately after many hours of fumbling I'm starting to feel like I'm getting the hang of Guilty Gear. And it is satisfying, getting just the right move when you need it, and pulling off (modestly) crazy combos reliably. But was it worth all those hours just to get to this point? I'm torn.
On the third hand, I can't afford a DS. *shrug* |
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xvs07 .
Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 160
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Portable fighters never seem to work quite right, and Strikers is no exception, but that's beside the point: I'm posting because this is my chance to be a sticky, drooling fanboy.
Slash is *so* fine. It's not a sequel, but in exchange it's more balanced than any 2D fighter I've ever seen. Sol and Ky are somewhat overpowered, and A.B.A. and Order Sol are basically prestigey skill characters for folks who want a rewarding challenge, but the rest of the cast is more or less equal. I agree with friedchicken somewhat, in that refinements aren't as exciting as true sequels, but isn't it nice to have a company that cares about giving players an opportunity for diversity?
I'll pick an easy target. If you look at the finalists and semifinalists of the Street Fighter 3: Third Strike tourney at EVO for any given year, you'll notice a preponderance of Ken and Chun-Li, and certain characters being completely absent. Maybe this is Capcom's way of allowing for a nonobvious handicap for inexperienced players, but it's a raw deal either way because that sort of thing makes a big difference at high-level play.
Part of the reason I bought Slash is because I wanted to support Sammy and ARC in the hopes that GGXXX will eventually see the light of day. I'm terrified that the series will die, leaving only the dubious offerings of SNK and Capcom and a few low-budget indie dudes to pick up the slack. Which is not to dig at the independents; Melty Blood's a great series, but it's still a far cry from the kind of polish that Guilty Gear exhibits. |
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TheRumblefish .
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:37 am Post subject: |
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xvs07 wrote: | I'll pick an easy target. If you look at the finalists and semifinalists of the Street Fighter 3: Third Strike tourney at EVO for any given year, you'll notice a preponderance of Ken and Chun-Li, and certain characters being completely absent. Maybe this is Capcom's way of allowing for a nonobvious handicap for inexperienced players, but it's a raw deal either way because that sort of thing makes a big difference at high-level play.
Which is not to dig at the independents; Melty Blood's a great series, but it's still a far cry from the kind of polish that Guilty Gear exhibits. |
This is a very interesting subject, as I brought this up recently in a conversation with a friend of mine. He couldn't fathom the idea that the top tier players all consisted of the same two characters over and over again. The "High Level" play of Street Fighter 3 is mirrored in a lot of other fighting games where characters consistently show up. Virtua Fighter might be an exception, then again there certainly has been a lot of Jacky and Akira players over the years. Maybe not champion level, but you see a lof them.
I personally love the independents, I certainly recognize that you're not bashing them at all or anything. Melty Blood, The Rumblefish (had to do it) and a few others really manage to take it up a notch at certain points.
As for Guilty Gear itself, I lost interest after seeing how depressing Isuka was. I don't know if I have any hope for the series at all anymore, then again I have lost almost all interest in fighting games as a whole. _________________
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GSL .
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 725 Location: Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:41 am Post subject: |
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friedchicken wrote: | That said, if you really want Isuka, I'll trade ya for it. Cheap. |
I may take you up on that. How's Isuka's standard arcade/story mode (I don't mean the cheesy side-scrolling part) in comparison to GGXX? If there's an honest improvement there, I'd be willing to find something to part with for it.
And xvs07, explain to me where Slash fits in with the releases. I got quite honestly lost after Guilty Gear XX #reload (which those bastards ONLY released on XBox!) I'm not sure what the standard GGXX game would feel like with even more balance--the standard GGXX always seemed really balanced to me right from the get-go, especially with the whole Roman Cancel system. Sure, Sol and Ky are the Ken and Ryu of the series, but they're essentially one-trick ponies that are easy as pie to whup with a little experience.
Historically, portable fighters (aside from the awesome games on the Neo Geo Pocket Color!) have indeed been pretty lousy, but I can't quite say the same for GGDS. The game itself is solidly built, and the action with 4 characters onscreen is QUITE frantic. The problems is that, well, it's not the Guilty Gear game I was expecting. So I'm a little torn in my opinion: it's a good game, it's just not a good Guilty Gear game.
As far as the independents go, I've been really impressed with a few of them. I really need to buy the Re:Act upgrade for my copy of Melty Blood, but even without all the balance fixes that come with Re:Act and the various patches, it's a lot of fun. The CPU difficulty is such that when you finally manage to pull off a really complex combo, you feel really, really good about yourself. I'm still trying to decide how bad I want to pre-order Act Cadenza on the PS2...
Another good doujin fighter would be Eternal Fighter Zero. Despite the cutesy exterior (the characters are all girls from visual novel games!) the game has a really solid engine that's half Guilty Gear XX and half Street Fighter Zero 3.
However, not all that's indie is good: I can't for the life of my figure out Immaterial and Missing Power, and I feel like I've given the game enough of a chance that I can squarely place my blame on poor design rather than my shortcomings as a gamer. It's difficult, counterintuitive, and I'm not at all convinced that the Fighter+Shooter formula is something that should be done. |
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xvs07 .
Joined: 22 Sep 2005 Posts: 160
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Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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TheRumblefish wrote: | As for Guilty Gear itself, I lost interest after seeing how depressing Isuka was. |
Dude, honestly, truly, just pretend that Isuka was a joke (which it was, in a certain light) and try Slash *once*. Isuka was a total gaiden put out to keep us quiet and profitable while they were busy polishing the real game and releasing Rumble Fish 2.
Greatsaintlouis wrote: | And xvs07, explain to me where Slash fits in .... |
Slash (or /, as it's known on the forums) is the final gameplay update to XX, far as I know; I can't read Japanese. They added two new characters, A.B.A. and Order Sol, and if you haven't played much #R then Robo-Ky's going to be a big surprise, too; they completely revamped him into a real character versus his gimmicky XX self. Some of the characters who I always had trouble putting through their paces (Anji, Potemkin, and Axl, for a start) feel like real contenders this time around. Also, they added lots of little subtleties here and there, stuff most folks wouldn't even notice. Downside? No story mode. I recommend poking around the forums at dustloop.com and romancancel.com for further info if interested.
Greatsaintlouis wrote: | .... Act Cadenza on the PS2 .... Eternal Fighter Zero .... Immaterial and Missing Power |
What's Act Cadenza? What's Eternal Fighter Zero? ::Googles:: I really enjoyed SFZ3..
I enjoy and excel at Immaterial and Missing Power, but it's not in the same league as these others. I think that's just newness, though; it's a pretty innovative idea, and needs some time to gestate. |
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GSL .
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 725 Location: Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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Melty Blood: Act Cadenza is the NAOMI arcade edition of the Melty Blood series; it's based off of MB Re: Act Final Tuned with quite a few added tweaks and changes. It's coming to PS2 in August.
Eternal Fighter Zero is a doujin fighter made by Tasogare Frontier, the same crazy folk responsible for Immaterial and Missing Power. EFZ is much more of a standard fighter, and is a lot easier to pick up and play than Melty Blood. The gameplay is much slower (though by no means sluggish) and features genre conventions such as super bars of various levels and an attack cancel system lifted straight out of Guilty Gear. It's quite a bit of fun and is a great example of a solidly built indie fighter. |
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TheRumblefish .
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 258 Location: Florida
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Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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xvs07 wrote: | TheRumblefish wrote: | As for Guilty Gear itself, I lost interest after seeing how depressing Isuka was. |
Dude, honestly, truly, just pretend that Isuka was a joke (which it was, in a certain light) and try Slash *once*. Isuka was a total gaiden put out to keep us quiet and profitable while they were busy polishing the real game and releasing Rumble Fish 2. |
I have tried pretending that Isuka was a joje, although it was a cruel and insulting one. As for Slash, I haven't had the money recently, but if I stumble across it I will try it. As Guilty Gear is the only fighting game series I seriously put a lot of time into. Especially with the character Testament, I mean I spent a lot of time learning how to use the character, train e.t.c.
How is The Rumblefish 2? Better then the first? _________________
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Persona-sama Weltbeherrschen Mangaka
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 709 Location: acrylic polymer dismutation
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:36 am Post subject: |
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Speaking of fighting games, has anyone played the new Hokuto no Ken fighting game by ARC System Works? It's so amazing! It's like they took the destroyer system from Guilty Gear and integrated into battle seamlessly (making it more like the first game than the second one). It plays more like Street Fighter than Guilty Gear (where everyone is flying around) but there's a dash button you can use after charging up a meter that speeds up the fighting a lot. It's a pretty awesome game just to look at too because it's an 80's action anime rendered into a 2d fighting game - everyone has like 80's hairspray metal doos and tight leather pants. Amazing. :o
Oh, and GreatSt.Louis - I played Act Cadenza at the arcade before. It's cool how they added Aoko as a character/final boss. Melty Blood is interesting because it's a doujin fighter turned legitimate tournament fighter - which basically means that all they did to balance the characters out is to make them ALL really cheap. Which means hillarious infinite loops! Man, it's such an awesome game. :D
I hope Furansupan (or whatever Watanabe Productions calls themselves now) make a Fate/Stay Night fighter. It's kind of late now though. _________________
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GSL .
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 725 Location: Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:19 am Post subject: |
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Persona-sama wrote: | Oh, and GreatSt.Louis - I played Act Cadenza at the arcade before. It's cool how they added Aoko as a character/final boss. Melty Blood is interesting because it's a doujin fighter turned legitimate tournament fighter - which basically means that all they did to balance the characters out is to make them ALL really cheap. Which means hillarious infinite loops! Man, it's such an awesome game.
I hope Furansupan (or whatever Watanabe Productions calls themselves now) make a Fate/Stay Night fighter. It's kind of late now though. |
Yeah, the neat thing about Melty Blood was that it had Type-Moon's blessing from the start--a doujin based on a doujin. Add to that the fact that it actually turned out GOOD... Well, I have yet to play Act Cadenza, but I'm seriously looking at importing it upon its console release. I suppose in the interim I ought to track down Re: Act and familiarize myself with its changes.
There already is a Fate/stay night doujin fighter by the name of Fate/sword dance, and while it is just as fluid and visually appealing as MB, it's not even remotely as balanced, and just becomes a frustrating chore to play. I'd love to see French Bread do a F/sn fighter as well, but something tells me they'll have their hands full with Higurashi Daybreak for a while. Considering their work on MB and Queen of Hearts, it would be a travesty if they DIDN'T give the treatment to F/sn. Let's all hope really hard! |
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friedchicken .
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Greatsaintlouis wrote: | friedchicken wrote: | That said, if you really want Isuka, I'll trade ya for it. Cheap. |
I may take you up on that. How's Isuka's standard arcade/story mode (I don't mean the cheesy side-scrolling part) in comparison to GGXX? If there's an honest improvement there, I'd be willing to find something to part with for it. |
Well, maybe you should stay away from Isuka. As far as I recall there's NOT an arcade mode where you fight one on one. I can't imagine you'd consider that an improvement... |
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GSL .
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 725 Location: Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Oh. For some reason, I was under the impression that there was the standard gameplay mode in Isuka as well.
Shows you how behind I am in the series. |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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GG:DS is Jump Superstars for Guilty Gear. Only not as deep or as good! HA!
Squidlarkin: I recommend grabbing up Jump Superstars if you ever get a DS, it is pretty much what you are asking for. Although I should state that I don't agree with your assesment of what a fighting game should be. In fact it is pretty much the opposite! But you seem to be learning.
Also, Isuka is fantasically terrible! Good thing I only wasted a dollar in the arcades figuring that out.
And, KOF XI needs to be mentioned damnit. I got a copy of it the other day which I need to give a try. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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friedchicken .
Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: |
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I'd love to talk about KOF XI. I should have it today and will have played it as of tomorrow.
But maybe we should start a new topic OR! I think there's an old topic about the arcade version, but I'm too lazy to look. |
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GSL .
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 725 Location: Mr. Lee's Greater Hong Kong
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Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, no KOF talk in this thread, heathen! This is all about the crazy goodness of Guilty Gear! |
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