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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Bethesda games are almost always worth getting on the PC just because of user-generated content and honestly, user-generated bug-fixes. |
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Worm
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Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Scratchmonkey wrote: | | Oh flapjacks. |
I don't understand the complaints about leveled encounters beyond the lack of diversity. They were kind of annoying in Oblivion but not game breaking or anything, and most games without some kind of leveling usually had an enforced type of linearity anyway. I mean who cares about a Fallout(or bethesda) game for the main storyline?
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dhex
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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Well, they were all over the place (not just the main story) in Oblivion, which led to some very silly things, like bandits loaded with Daedric armor and it being very doable to become Champion of the Arena at level 2. Doing it in the main storyline is somewhat different, I just find it annoying because I like the variation of biting off more than you can chew or making yourself into a walking avatar of destruction.
Mainly it's that it bugs me in the same way that rubberbanding AI bugs me in driving games. Logically, I can understand why designers do level-matching and rubberbanding, they want to make the experience consistent. Emotionally, it just doesn't sit well with me. If the situation is unbalanced, that's the way it played out and let the cards fall where they may. |
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jjsimpso
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Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 94
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Worm wrote: | | Scratchmonkey wrote: | | Oh flapjacks. |
I don't understand the complaints about leveled encounters beyond the lack of diversity. They were kind of annoying in Oblivion but not game breaking or anything, and most games without some kind of leveling usually had an enforced type of linearity anyway. I mean who cares about a Fallout(or bethesda) game for the main storyline? |
For me, the leveling in oblivion absolutely was game breaking. A lot depends on the type of character you want to play, I guess. I could expound on this a lot more, but it really doesn't matter because that was MY experience. Plus, it just made the game boring.
However, Fallout apparently has the leveling toned down a bit so that different regions have different ranges they can level through. They mentioned that some areas are too tough for beginning characters and that some areas have their levels set based on when you first enter them. This still doesn't sound like a perfect solution, but it sounds better than Oblivion.
Also, my main problem with the E3 demo was that the combat didn't actually look that good. And neither did the physics. And they just seem overly excited about Bloody Mess, but that could just be playing to the audience. I did see a more in depth demonstration where they talked about managing radiation levels and some other things which sound potentially a lot more interesting. |
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Worm
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Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| jjsimpso wrote: | | For me, the leveling in oblivion absolutely was game breaking. A lot depends on the type of character you want to play, I guess. I could expound on this a lot more, but it really doesn't matter because that was MY experience. |
What, you played a bard? An Ethiopian track star? A pacifist thief? Honestly, unless you played like a knob you didn't have a problem, and even if you had a problem the difficulty bar would have fixed it. You could pick all language skills in Daggerfall and throw up your hands for a change of pace, if you want.
| Quote: | | However, Fallout apparently has the leveling toned down a bit so that different regions have different ranges they can level through. They mentioned that some areas are too tough for beginning characters and that some areas have their levels set based on when you first enter them. This still doesn't sound like a perfect solution, but it sounds better than Oblivion. |
I don't get this sentiment at all. If you're not quicksaving you're not trying? Thanks I've had enough of that in my gaming career.
| Quote: | | And they just seem overly excited about Bloody Mess, but that could just be playing to the audience. |
That's Fallout, I don't even know what to say to you.
| Scratchmonkey wrote: | | Well, they were all over the place (not just the main story) in Oblivion, which led to some very silly things, like bandits loaded with Daedric armor and it being very doable to become Champion of the Arena at level 2. |
Yeah the deadric armor is a fair complaint see (re: loss of rarity). However lots of the other complaints are things you could simply CHOOSE not to do.
I never understood the people running around FLIPPING OUT that they could knock things off tables and the AI wouldn't react or screeching like little girls as they abused the stealth system
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Redeye
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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Location: filth
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Worm wrote: |
What, you played a bard? An Ethiopian track star? |
Speed, athletics, and stamina were my favorites. jump jump jump swim swim swim run run run
It helped with the boredom. I just ran right through a lot of things. Skipped combat. The portal planes were a snap once you had the patterns down. Just run right past all the daedra.
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I never understood the people running around FLIPPING OUT that they could knock things off tables and the AI wouldn't react or screeching like little girls as they abused the stealth system |
It has been a very long time since RPGs or even action/adventure RPGs were around.
There has certainly been improvement in choices/etc.
But its over 10 years since Fallout...
Yes, the FP modeled AI is better by far than the stand around characters of way back.
Maybe if there was a way to make missing items/disturbed environment trigger something like the evidence trails in the Thief series.
Then build on that.
I suppose jadedness may be a factor in the dissatisfaction.
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sediment
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, I could knock out an Oblivion gate in five minutes flat on my agent, two on my battlemage.
Fortify speed + athletics, charge through the towers blasting daedra out of the way with Finger of the Mountain.
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Worm
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Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| Redeye wrote: | Speed, athletics, and stamina were my favorites. jump jump jump swim swim swim run run run
It helped with the boredom. I just ran right through a lot of things. |
Yeah so spending seventy hours on a game you don't like, and playing like a cunt the whole time. I don't think it's as much a fault against Oblivion as it is for your genes.
| Quote: | It has been a very long time since RPGs or even action/adventure RPGs were around.
There has certainly been improvement in choices/etc.
But its over 10 years since Fallout...
Yes, the FP modeled AI is better by far than the stand around characters of way back.
Maybe if there was a way to make missing items/disturbed environment trigger something like the evidence trails in the Thief series.
Then build on that.
I suppose jadedness may be a factor in the dissatisfaction. |
That's a lot of fragments and I need to take a shower. Look, no one shit bricks over Doom 3 like they're shitting them over Fallout 3. The point is that losers (even among gamers) are the people who really love RPGs and they react disproportionately. Also the hardcore people still hate it, before someone lies about the begrudged acceptance again. The entire problem with Oblivion(and Morrowind before it became the magic holy) was that it was reaching out to console players. The same raising up of Morrowind was done with Daggerfall when Morrowind was just out.
And hey, they could have made all the items very very very indepth and done all that stuff you said, but it'd be stupid and a fucking waste of time and the majority of people who bought/played the game didn't give a shit. Also it wouldn't have ADDED anything at all, except being needless tweaking to curb bitching of bitchers, who would have probably found something else anyway. I think it was amazing enough that they were all physics modeled.
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dhex
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The point is that losers (even among gamers) are the people who really love RPGs and they react disproportionately. |
no doubt you will continue to teach us about appropriate reactions for many years to come.
anyhoo, back to the trailer. it looks like a really poorly made fps a la blacksite. now, i love fps games like they're made out of hashish and rainy sundays. i love fps-rpg hybrids (fps+ or whatever you wanna call it) like it's a look ma no hands blowjob.
but this didn't look very good at all. it looks like shit. in fact, watching it again drove that home, unfortunately. when i say all they had to do was rip off stalker, i meant all they had to do was get some of that atmosphere right, some of that sense of hopeless dread mixed with the goofy humor and 50s sci fi jamboree, rather than eastern european nihilism and dodgy quality assurance.
the article i linked too was far more interesting; the grenade in pocket trick would have made a much better demonstration segment to boot, because i'm not sure who was supposed to be impressed by a halfhearted fps.
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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For the record, I talked way more shit about Doom 3 than I ever did about Oblivion.
It's not like levelling is the bane of all RPG games, everybody's favorite Morrowind had it, yet it managed to balance it (see: rarity) in ways that Oblivion fucked up. |
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dhex
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
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doom 3 had really great environmental design.
shame about the game, though.
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Redeye
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Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I read that Doom 3 was a tech demo before I played it.
So I played it as a tech demo.
Ho hum.
MONSTER CLOSETS
When you drive down the highway and see doors in the retaining walls and sound barriers, when you see doors in the side of tunnels.
There are monsters waiting behind them.
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Worm
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Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | no doubt you will continue to teach us about appropriate reactions for many years to come. |
That you put this on top of a post full of mistakes and misconceptions is really beautiful, thanks.
| dhex wrote: | | i love fps-rpg hybrids (fps+ or whatever you wanna call it) like it's a look ma no hands blowjob. |
Look, you're not talking about STALKER right? Because if you are you're completely off the fucking mark. It was an FPS with an inventory, this is like calling Halflife 2 a racing game/FPS hybrid cuz it let you drive a car, it totally misses the point that a genre hybrid blends GAMEPLAY. It's not just about infusing popular abstractions from one game to another, that would lead to an absolute impossibility of discussing any games that blend elements. Alone in the Dark isn't a racing game hybrid just because you HAPPEN to do racing in it. STALKER is not a RPG hybrid because you happen to get quests (this would qualify quake 2 btw) and do inventory management.
| Quote: | | but this didn't look very good at all. it looks like shit. in fact, watching it again drove that home, unfortunately. when i say all they had to do was rip off stalker, i meant all they had to do was get some of that atmosphere right, some of that sense of hopeless dread mixed with the goofy humor and 50s sci fi jamboree, rather than eastern european nihilism and dodgy quality assurance. |
Yeah, the atmosphere in fallout games kind of hits you instantly in the game, it's sure not established over long periods of play, FUCK NO!
| Scratchmonkey wrote: | | It's not like levelling is the bane of all RPG games, everybody's favorite Morrowind had it, yet it managed to balance it (see: rarity) in ways that Oblivion fucked up. |
What? I don't believe it did.
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Cossix
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: |
but this didn't look very good at all. it looks like shit. in fact, watching it again drove that home, unfortunately. when i say all they had to do was rip off stalker, i meant all they had to do was get some of that atmosphere right, some of that sense of hopeless dread mixed with the goofy humor and 50s sci fi jamboree, rather than eastern european nihilism and dodgy quality assurance. |
When did the Fallout series have ANYTHING to do with "hopeless dread"? It's always been about being a quirky sci-fi RPG. It looks like Fallout 3 is going to be a lot of this! It doesn't need to be anything like STALKER at all and really it shouldn't be. STALKER is a game where you shoot the same set of bandits and monsters and avoid anomalies and just try to survive mostly, while Fallout is a game about getting a power suit and kicking people in the eyes or getting a bigass rocket launcher or talking your way out of everything. They're not even remotely the same. They don't have the same sort of atmosphere and quite frankly they shouldn't. Games can be different! This one doesn't look shitty!
It's actually pretty nice, having a game you can play as an FPS or as an RPG. It's kind of like the logical extension of where Bioware was going with Mass Effect. |
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Redeye wrote: | | Obnoxiously dark MONSTER CLOSETS |
fixed
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dhex
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | When did the Fallout series have ANYTHING to do with "hopeless dread"? |
fallout is a dark and fucked up place with fucked up things. it's also funny.
at least that's how i see it.
hence "some of." the demo looked very, very shitty.
| Quote: | | It's actually pretty nice, having a game you can play as an FPS or as an RPG. |
that is the hope of hopes, since that's my favoritest genre ever.
i don't actually see this anywhere in the demo, though the preview article seems to indicate it exists.
st. jude, hear our prayer.
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Worm
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | hence "some of." the demo looked very, very shitty. |
Haha, so you didn't see enough dark and fucked upness in a demonstration of the combat system? "Why didn't he rape that woman's stump after he killed her *throws up hands*". What are you even talking about here, again the fucking demo wasn't trying to show that, you can't point out the lack of something that wasn't intended to be shown and then somehow insist the game is missing it. It lacked an endless amount of things, things it was NO FUCKING DEMONSTRATING.
| Quote: | | i don't actually see this anywhere in the demo, though the preview article seems to indicate it exists. |
Don't see WHAT? Honestly, you're either a great troll or a fucking dolt. I want to know the last video game you played right now. I can't even believe you play fucking video games anymore.
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dhex
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | What are you even talking about here |
i said the demo looked shitty.
you took that as a cue to do your thing.
we clearly disagree. for you, that is very emotionally wrenching. i'm sorry. i'll try harder in the future to fulfill your emotional needs. i know this isn't a one-way street.
| Quote: | | I can't even believe you play fucking video games anymore. |
hell, i didn't even make this post.
i'm made out of magic.
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Redeye
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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more please
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Scratchmonkey
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Worm wrote: | | Scratchmonkey wrote: | | It's not like levelling is the bane of all RPG games, everybody's favorite Morrowind had it, yet it managed to balance it (see: rarity) in ways that Oblivion fucked up. |
What? I don't believe it did. |
Sure it did. Non-story monsters changed to become more dangerous as you became more powerful, Daedric ruins that were previous entirely populated by scamps would now have lots of daedroths, etc. It's why you'd only see Golden Saints or what have you roaming about the wilderness until you'd done some leveling yourself. |
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extrabastardformula
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Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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But Morrowind's levelling system was entirely broken and since it scaled combat to your level a build not geared towards combat would be trashed if you focused on what your build was about.
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Redeye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| extrabastardformula wrote: | | But Morrowind's levelling system was entirely broken and since it scaled combat to your level a build not geared towards combat would be trashed if you focused on what your build was about. |
If you had lots of speed and jumping ability/etc. you could get past a lot of combat.
With healing potions/etc. you could hold the Heart-killing items for long enough to win. Just whack the bad honcho with a mattock to knock him into the lava, then do it again when you start whacking the heart. (He beams back to you when you start heart-whacking.)
I really hated Mournhold or whatever it was called. The goblins were tougher than most bosses from the original game.
I guess that the more immersive and real a game seems, the more is expected of it.
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dhex
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: |
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i had a murderous tank in morrowind, so even mournhould wasn't that crazy difficult.
sadly it runs very poorly with the widescreen hack on my xp setup.
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Worm
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | Quote: | | What are you even talking about here |
i said the demo looked shitty.
you took that as a cue to do your thing.
we clearly disagree. for you, that is very emotionally wrenching. i'm sorry. i'll try harder in the future to fulfill your emotional needs. i know this isn't a one-way street.
| Quote: | | I can't even believe you play fucking video games anymore. |
hell, i didn't even make this post.
i'm made out of magic. |
God, BLAH BLAH BLAH. Whatever, I'll be looking forward to your buttmunch blog posts decrying Fallout 3 for not being STALKER. I'd really like to know if you've played anything since STALKER. Just go right out there and lie about a few games, I won't question you at all, but I just want to see your bullshit take some kind of a form.
You can shit on me for being an over bearing fucking spaz who takes everything too seriously, but it's better than being someone who takes his shit so seriously that he only operates in a shroud of cowardice and esoterica quivering with fear at the possibility of making an actual statement on something. Constantly trying to seem enlightened without any investment, trying to seem knowledgeable without any experience, hopping from trend to trend and riding them hard until they collapse under you. You're the worst kind of nihilist.
It gets to a point where you're not even being coherent because you're making so soft of a statement. Like some kind of a mad prospector I have to sift through your bullshit to establish a context to disagree with, because you're not attempting to say anything, rather you just want to put forth the idea that you're some archetype of gamer without actually holding opinions or views on games.
Basically you said(and no, I'm not letting it go) that the demo of the VATs combat system was bad because the combat system didn't display how the game was dark or fucked up. This is moronic, essentially it displayed that it's combat system is similar to the orginal Fallout's in being bloody and allowing to target people's limbs(NO GROINS OH NO).
Here you make no sense at all, you can't explain how a combat system demo would demonstrate this, and you don't want to. You just want to preach about what you think the game will lack and you're using a combat demo to do it.
Next you say that FPS or RPG(which?) is your favorite genre, and say you don't see how the combat demo indicates that the game is an FPS or RPG(which?). I don't know what you were expecting to see in a demo of the combat system to push you either way on this. It has real time FPS stuff, and it has real time with pause stuff that uses dice and skill checks much like featured in a numerous number of RPGs. Again what would have assayed your worries? I can only imagine NOTHING would have.
Now you can go on trying your ass off to not give a shit, good fucking luck.
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Worm wrote: | | You can shit on me for being an over bearing fucking spaz who takes everything too seriously, but it's better than being someone who takes his shit so seriously that he only operates in a shroud of cowardice and esoterica quivering with fear at the possibility of making an actual statement on something. |
| Ghostface Killa wrote: | | i dont think you understand, so see, not understanding languages works both ways. after smashing away da foundations of your extreme arguments, your left with your dick in your hands and just say 'oh...ur gay', hence. |
This is a miracle thread. I'm pretty sure the face of Jesus has appeared in it. |
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Worm
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Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Hah, so all you guys are Ghostface Killa? I can't even tell if that's supposed to be for or against me. However I'm sure it supports some kind of silly view where trying to say anyone is right or wrong is ultimately pointless, and we should all resort to nodding and non-statements about things we're really not interested in. Whatever, if someone wants to actually respond to me go ahead, otherwise you can get back to your "hm"s "I see"s and "quite"s.
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dark steve
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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rather
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Scratchmonkey
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: |
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Shit, I was about to post that he'd forgotten "rather".
I do have my pinky out though. |
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dhex
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You can shit on me for being an over bearing fucking spaz who takes everything too seriously, but it's better than being someone who takes his shit so seriously that he only operates in a shroud of cowardice and esoterica quivering with fear at the possibility of making an actual statement on something. |
"this demo looks shitty."
as in "this demo did not look very good at all; it was stiff, ugly, and boring."
i can't get much more statementy than that, chief. i'm not one much for the ludonautic acrobatics of the far more worthy luminaries of TGQ, so the point by point usenet-style sexual release you so desperately crave will have to be found elsewhere.
| Quote: | | You're the worst kind of nihilist. |
perhaps i am finally having one of those freebies i was promised in the 90s?
either way, consider this a reacharound:
the wonderful end of the world - a katamari clone. iffy music, but of several magnitudes weirder than it's predecessor. for nine dollars, i can heartily recommend it to pc gamers looking for a bit of that small--bigger---biggest routine.
titan's quest and expansion: i really enjoyed the hell of out this. mindless, to be sure, but "numbers go up" is compelling in the same way porn is.
assassin's creed: eh. it had potential. jumping around is great fun. shame about the history, but that's what games are for. the combat is annoying on the pc, and is probably less annoying with a controller. fighting is more akin to a rhythm game than a click click click.
neverwinter nights 2 and mask of the betrayer: nwn2 didn't get on me until the end, but it had moments of compelling narrative and character-building that helped push me through. the final battle was an annoying nightmare and i finally gave up. mask of the betrayer, as everyone tells me, is worth my time, but i'm stuck in a dungeon somewhere with some death knights and i just can't bring myself to pick it up again.
call of duty 4 - it is jingoistic because it has to imagine a future filled with enemies, all of whom crawled out of several tom clancy films. however, death from above twisted this around in such a way that i've been showing it to people for months as an example of the subtle twists of games done right (tm). a short ride, but i liked it.
gears of war: gears of snore! it took me three hours to think of that line.
hellgate: london: wack.
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Worm
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Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | "this demo looks shitty."
as in "this demo did not look very good at all; it was stiff, ugly, and boring."
i can't get much more statementy than that, chief. |
It still seems like you're trying to fault the overall gameplay or feel from a demonstration video. Saying they have the atmosphere wrong from a two minute long walk through a shooting gallery is just obscene, it's like you're some wormhole alien who doesn't understand physical matter or linear time.
It's pretty obvious you're not talking about the combat, since it's pretty standard fare and it's really hard to get a idea for the balance while a developer is smashing around in godmode with maxed out stats and gear. It's like you're saying "well if I had to play through the game demonstrating it that way I wouldn't enjoy it" just so you can come to negative conclusion.
If anything I'm more aghast at the STALKER crap, if you want to make a thread about how it's a RPG/FPS hybrid I'll be happy to scream at you for a few months in that very thread.
| Quote: | | neverwinter nights 2 and mask of the betrayer: nwn2 didn't get on me until the end, but it had moments of compelling narrative and character-building that helped push me through. the final battle was an annoying nightmare and i finally gave up. mask of the betrayer, as everyone tells me, is worth my time, but i'm stuck in a dungeon somewhere with some death knights and i just can't bring myself to pick it up again. |
Don't ... just don't. Those games, all those games, are developed because of a very complex humiliation fetish between Chris Avellone and a number of computer gamers. No one understands who is humiliating whom, but if you can't come to the game box with your dick out, you're not going to enjoy it at all.
| Quote: | | call of duty 4 - it is jingoistic because it has to imagine a future filled with enemies, all of whom crawled out of several tom clancy films. however, death from above twisted this around in such a way that i've been showing it to people for months as an example of the subtle twists of games done right (tm). a short ride, but i liked it. |
No mention of Bioshock?
| Quote: | | hellgate: london: wack. |
That really was a shitty piece of shit.
Anyway, I really think you might be better off just sitting back and waiting on STALKER Clear Sky, because the conclusions you come to after playing Fallout 3 are the kind of textual pollution that the world cannot handle.
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dhex
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | It's like you're saying "well if I had to play through the game demonstrating it that way I wouldn't enjoy it" just so you can come to negative conclusion. |
alternate explanation: the demo looked boring and shitty. alpha to the omega (and you don't stop)
stalker is an fps/rpg hybrid? hardly. it's a solid fps+ kind of game. if you like you can start the thread, post for both of us and have a grand old time.
i liked planescape enough that if chris avallone wanted to slap me and spit in my mouth, i'd think about it.
i draw the line at horse tails, though.
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Worm
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | alternate explanation: the demo looked boring and shitty. |
Haha, sure, yeah, right, w/e.
| Quote: | | stalker is an fps/rpg hybrid? hardly. it's a solid fps+ kind of game. if you like you can start the thread, post for both of us and have a grand old time. |
woooooooo FPS+, you're cracking the new games journalism world wide open here. It was a fucking FPS, that's it. Honestly man, the games should have no similarity, and asking for that is just insanity.
| Quote: | | i liked planescape enough that if chris avallone wanted to slap me and spit in my mouth, i'd think about it. |
Well that's what he's been doing with every game since Baldur's Gate 2, so you don't even have to think about it.
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dhex
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | woooooooo FPS+, you're cracking the new games journalism world wide open here. |
there are different kinds of fps games, to be sure. there's a line that separates things like halo or call of duty 2/4 from things like stalker and bioshock, but that doesn't quite dance into ultima underworld territory. fps+ is a decent way of putting it, what with interactive inventory and all that.
i was never able to get into baldur's gate 2. you'd think a game featuring a semi-retarded balding man with a pet rodent would call to me, but it does not.
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Considering that Fallout 3 can be played as an FPS (in a post-apocalyptic word), if you think there's "no similarity" between that and S.T.A.L.K.E.R., well, uhm, I'm not sure how you're using "similarity". |
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Scratchmonkey
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | there are simple questions of quality that it's impossible to avoid: characterless art, cold visuals, wonky animation, weak real-time combat, off-kilter writing. As it stands, Fallout 3 just doesn't feel right |
That's from the Eurogamer preview and I have to say that it highlights probably the one aspect of the E3 demo that really bothered me, which was the art. It wasn't that the quality of it was poor, it was that everything was blasted-concrete gray and that there didn't seem to be much "depth" to it, partly due to the textures that they were using. The enemy models looked pretty poor as well, blotchy and indistinguishable.
Given, most of my viewings of it have been on YouTube and art assets often go into games very late, there's always that to hope for.
(Still buying it mind.)
ETA: Linky Linky.
EFTA: Aaaaand there's some plot revelation in that article, although it's very basic. ASPOILARZ:
You're looking for your dad oh god don't go all FFX on me. |
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Worm
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Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Scratchmonkey wrote: | | Considering that Fallout 3 can be played as an FPS (in a post-apocalyptic word), if you think there's "no similarity" between that and S.T.A.L.K.E.R., well, uhm, I'm not sure how you're using "similarity". |
Haha, yeah they're both POST APOCALYPTIC, SO IS HALF LIFE 2, GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD.
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Scratchmonkey
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I just like poking at hyperbole. |
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Worm
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Serious Sam too.
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extrabastardformula
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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Guys, Worm played the "it's not for you" card already. There's no point in engaging any further.
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Worm
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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I was trying to point out just how painful it would be when dhex gets his hands on the game and has to use it to prove how smart he is. Though, I guess yeah, when you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding about the setting, atmosphere, or style that something is going for it might just not be for you.
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jjsimpso
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| Redeye wrote: | | extrabastardformula wrote: | | But Morrowind's levelling system was entirely broken and since it scaled combat to your level a build not geared towards combat would be trashed if you focused on what your build was about. |
If you had lots of speed and jumping ability/etc. you could get past a lot of combat.
With healing potions/etc. you could hold the Heart-killing items for long enough to win. Just whack the bad honcho with a mattock to knock him into the lava, then do it again when you start whacking the heart. (He beams back to you when you start heart-whacking.)
I really hated Mournhold or whatever it was called. The goblins were tougher than most bosses from the original game.
I guess that the more immersive and real a game seems, the more is expected of it. |
One reason the leveling works better in Morrowind is because the treasure/items aren't leveled. So even if you aren't playing a super-tank you can still figure out ways to steal or otherwise obtain equipment to help you through it. They 'fixed' this in Oblivion so that you could never 'cheat' in order to get ahead. Also, the leveling did seem to vary more by geographic region.
I completely agree about Mournhold. Weren't there also really high level rats? |
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dhex
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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there were some badass rats in mournhold if i recall correctly.
| Quote: | | Though, I guess yeah, when you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding about the setting, atmosphere, or style that something is going for it might just not be for you. |
i thought we were misunderstanding the concept of a demonstration for a mass audience?
in your estimation, what did it demonstrate correctly as per setting, atmosphere and style?
as far as style, the pip boy wrist pda art was on point, no?
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Worm
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dhex wrote: | | i thought we were misunderstanding the concept of a demonstration for a mass audience? |
If I listed all the things you misunderstood I'd be face down dead in front of my computer because of starvation. I'd have to type so fast and so hard that I couldn't even shove goldfish crackers in my mouth to sustain my pitiful form.
| Quote: | in your estimation, what did it demonstrate correctly as per setting, atmosphere and style?
as far as style, the pip boy wrist pda art was on point, no? |
Don't be a dick, you don't understand the atmosphere because you were drawing comparisons between it and STALKER. It's like trying to compare Gothic and The Witcher(if I ever made this comparison it was about the fans), they're just two totally different things.
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Cossix
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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This demo wasn't set up to show off the atmosphere or emotional capacity of the game. Those just aren't things people really show off at E3. It just doesn't happen.
This demo was put out to show that VATS isn't a stupid gimmicky addition (it looks like it really works pretty well). It was to show that you can shoot the guns out of people's hands. It was to show the differences between using VATS and just shooting dudes in the face. It also was for people that like body parts flying off of dudes (which is why I imagine they went with Bloody Mess as one of their perks! If you don't like bodies exploding, don't take it!). It doesn't demo the dialog system. It doesn't demo the quests you'll be undertaking. It doesn't demo much of the game world at all, really, just a small corner. It doesn't demo your character's progression in the world at all either, just something that looks like it's pretty near the start of the game.
When they were demoing Call of Duty 4, they didn't show off much else besides shooting dudes with assault rifles. Why would anyone expect them to show off much more than that for this game? Bethesda games are pretty much player experience driven; a demo of them has never really shown much historically. |
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Redeye
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| Posted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Cossix wrote: | This demo wasn't set up to show off the atmosphere or emotional capacity of the game. Those just aren't things people really show off at E3. It just doesn't happen.
...It doesn't demo your character's progression in the world at all either, just something that looks like it's pretty near the start of the game.
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If super dangerous areas are accessible early on, then that is a good point in favor.
*happy*
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dhex
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| Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This demo was put out to show that VATS isn't a stupid gimmicky addition (it looks like it really works pretty well). |
on this we disagree. i think it looked ridiculous. on the other hand, if you're going to go with real time interaction, there's no other way to implement it.
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Redeye
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Fallout 3 screenshots
Politically correct:
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Redeye
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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Worm
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| Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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So they didn't list skin tones, or what?
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