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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: Japan, you are not America |
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From The Magic Box:
Quote: | - Here are the Famitsu Readers All Time Favorite Games in Japan:
1. Monster Hunter Portable 2nd (PSP, Capcom)
2. Final Fantasy X (PS2, Square Enix)
3. Dragon Quest VIII (PS2, Square Enix)
4. Final Fantasy VII (PS, Square Enix)
5. Dairantou Smash Bros. X [Super Smash Bros. Brawl] (Wii, Nintendo)
6. Persona 3 Fes (PS2, Atlus)
7. Oide yo Doubutsu no Mori DS [Animal Crossing: Wild World] (NDS, Nintendo)
8. Machi (Saturn, Chunsoft)
9. Final Fantasy XII (PS2, Square Enix)
10. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PS2, Konami)
11. Tales of the Abyss (PS2, Bandai Namco)
12. Tactics Orge (SFC, Square Enix/Quest)
13. Super Robot Taisen Original Generations (PS2, Banpresto)
14. Okami (PS2, Capcom)
15. Lost Odyssey (X360, Microsoft)
16. Dragon Quest IV (NDS, Square Enix)
17. Super Mario Galaxy (Wii, Nintendo)
18. Biohazard 4 (PS2, Capcom)
19. Final Fantasy IV (NDS, Square Enix)
20. Ryuga Gotoku 2 (PS2, Sega) |
What the fuck is going on here? Most of this list can be easily explained. Japanese people like Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and the Famitsu readerbase is a small subset of the people who actually buy games in Japan, but what about the rest? some of these are totally unexplainable.
How did Monster Hunter end up above everything else altogether? Is it actually the World of Warcraft of Japan?
What the fuck is Machi?
Is Tactics Ogre actually more popular than Final Fantasy Tactics?
What makes Super Robot Taisen original Generations better than any of the other twice a year Super Robot Taisen games?
How the hell could Lost Odyssey possibly be on there at all?
Yakuza 2? Huh?
Can anyone explain this?
-Wes _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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New Games Journalism's Superwes, there.
Machi is a sound-only videogame for the Saturn; it plays out like an audio drama you have control over. It's about life on the Streets of Tokyo, or something. It was in the top ten of Famitsu reader's top 100 games of all time.
Actually, the funny thing about the internet is if you type things into it it tells you about them :O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machi_%28video_game%29 |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Can anyone explain this? |
it's a poll, yo. _________________
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | New Games Journalism's Superwes, there.
Machi is a sound-only videogame for the Saturn; it plays out like an audio drama you have control over. It's about life on the Streets of Tokyo, or something. It was in the top ten of Famitsu reader's top 100 games of all time.
Actually, the funny thing about the internet is if you type things into it it tells you about them :O http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machi_%28video_game%29 |
Dude, don't be a dick. The main point of this thread is, "WTF my impressions of Japan are either really wrong or there's some skewed data going on here." Regardless of what it is, it's really strange to me that a Saturn voice-only game that very few us players know about is one of the top-ten games of all time in the average Japanese player(note: not actually the average Japanese player)'s mind. Maybe the average blind Japanese player, but everyone? Nah. Also maybe Lost Odyssey and Yakuza 2 aren't terrible?
-Wes _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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I just reread that post of mine above, I'm sure there was a way of saying what I wanted to say without coming off as a douchebag, I am sorry |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at this list I find it a bit strange that there's no first game of a series (that has multiple games) on there:
1. Monster Hunter Portable 2nd (PSP, Capcom)
2. Final Fantasy X (PS2, Square Enix)
3. Dragon Quest VIII (PS2, Square Enix)
4. Final Fantasy VII (PS, Square Enix)
5. Dairantou Smash Bros. X [Super Smash Bros. Brawl] (Wii, Nintendo)
6. Persona 3 Fes (PS2, Atlus)
7. Oide yo Doubutsu no Mori DS [Animal Crossing: Wild World] (NDS, Nintendo)
8. Machi (Saturn, Chunsoft)
9. Final Fantasy XII (PS2, Square Enix)
10. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater (PS2, Konami)
11. Tales of the Abyss (PS2, Bandai Namco)
12. Tactics Orge (SFC, Square Enix/Quest)
13. Super Robot Taisen Original Generations (PS2, Banpresto)
14. Okami (PS2, Capcom)
15. Lost Odyssey (X360, Microsoft)
16. Dragon Quest IV (NDS, Square Enix)
17. Super Mario Galaxy (Wii, Nintendo)
18. Biohazard 4 (PS2, Capcom)
19. Final Fantasy IV (NDS, Square Enix)
20. Ryuga Gotoku 2 (PS2, Sega)
That strikes me as very strange. Of all the series of games I like, hardly ever is the most recent one my favorite, and rarely do I enjoy remakes more than the originals. Tactics Ogre is the only game to come out unscathed by either a sequel defeating it or a rerelease.
My guess is that this list is kind of like if Nintendo Power's Reader list were to represent all of the US.
EDIT: SSBB is so new that it's far too presumptuous to include it on any list yet. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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Shapermc wrote: | Looking at this list I find it a bit strange that there's no first game of a series (that has multiple games) on there: |
This actually isn't that surprising to me. I agree that sequels usually aren't as exciting as the original games, but most sequels are also just glorified expansion packs. Almost all of these games are sequels, but they're also sequels that evolved their predecessors instead of just bringing new stories and enemies to the same games. Dragon Quest is the debatable exception to this rule. The reason I say the number of sequels here isn't that surprising is because original games usually create designs and worlds while sequels refine them. For example, while RE4 is great it wouldn't have been possible without the ideas first seen in RE1 and the rest of its predecessors. Even the original games on the list like Okami wouldn't have been possible if Capcom didn't already have the experience of making 4 Zelda games beforehand. Also, best-selling games that people like are more likely to spawn sequels with budgets high enough to experiment with improvements until they get things right.
At any rate, somebody should track down a previous iteration of this list and see how things have changed over years. Maybe I'll do that!
-Wes _________________
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Looking at the list again I realize that ... yeah, most of those are probably the best version of the series (with my taste saying MGS2 is better but 3 is a more solid game).
Also, I need to get Tales of the Abyss because I remember being interested in it for the co-op.
ASIDE: FF6 is missing from that list, which I completely agree with. I can't understand all the praise that game gets honestly. FF4 is quite a bit better. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Cossix .
Joined: 14 Nov 2007 Posts: 87
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Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Lost Odyssey is pretty good, yeah.
Looking forward to actually playing Yakuza 2 whenever it finally fucking gets released here, too. Yakuza 1 was pretty good once you started getting into it. |
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | Regardless of what it is, it's really strange to me that a Saturn voice-only game that very few us players know about is one of the top-ten games of all time in the average Japanese player(note: not actually the average Japanese player)'s mind. Maybe the average blind Japanese player, but everyone? Nah. |
Well Wes, I would imagine the game is highly regarded because it is really, really good, or at least it's a compelling and original experience hard to measure against anything else. Yet, because it's impossible to play without a thorough knowledge of Japanese, and due to its platform and subject matter it would have been a very tough sell over here considering the enormous amount of money it would have cost to localize it, we haven't heard of it over here, either upon release or through the import scene. Does that help? |
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dmauro .
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Shapermc wrote: | EDIT: SSBB is so new that it's far too presumptuous to include it on any list yet. |
It's on my list of Top 10 for sure, probably Top 5 even. I'm not being presumptuous; three months of solid play has been enough to let me know that it is an absolutely fantastic game that I like more than most other games.
But I'm sure it's only on that list because it just came out. |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Harveyjames wrote: | Well Wes, I would imagine the game is highly regarded because it is really, really good, or at least it's a compelling and original experience hard to measure against anything else. Yet, because it's impossible to play without a thorough knowledge of Japanese, and due to its platform and subject matter it would have been a very tough sell over here considering the enormous amount of money it would have cost to localize it, we haven't heard of it over here, either upon release or through the import scene. Does that help? |
Two problems with this:
1) Had you heard of the game before you looked it up? I've been following the Japanese gaming scene for a long time and I was aware of the game (assuming it's Kenji Eno's voice-only game), but I didn't realize it was anyone's favorite game of all time. Pretty surprising! If you weren't surprised I'm impressed! You know Japan better than I do!
2) It's a voice-only game, so I'm not sure the localization would have taken that much effort if it's really one of the best games of all time. Shouldn't there at least be a fan-translation?
-Wes _________________
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dmauro .
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:15 am Post subject: |
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Apparently it was re-released on the PSP less than two years ago. Perhaps this was enough to remind people that they really liked it back then so they included it on their list of favorites? |
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Mr Mustache .
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 167 Location: Queens
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: |
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I don't think polls like this should be taken too seriously.
It's like when a pop music station has a top 50 list of all time as decided by callers. Most participants are probably not thinking critically about their responses. The end result is a hodge podge, weighted towards more recent, well publicized releases. _________________ Straight up |
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Lestrade Bug Fister
Joined: 24 Mar 2005 Posts: 1760 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Damn you, Mr. Moustache, for being so reasonable and well-thought. Damn you! |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: |
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i said the same thing in the third post.
_________________
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dmauro .
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 303 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
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dhex wrote: | i said the same thing in the third post.
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Yeah definitely. But it still doesn't explain Machi. |
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Mr Mustache .
Joined: 26 Oct 2006 Posts: 167 Location: Queens
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:05 am Post subject: |
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The Orient is full of mystery. _________________ Straight up |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Mr Mustache wrote: | The Orient is full of mystery. |
_________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Yeah definitely. But it still doesn't explain Machi. |
the whole graphic novel thing is big over there, and this seems like a graphic novel of a game, so...? _________________
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parkbench .
Joined: 02 Jul 2007 Posts: 145
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: |
Two problems with this:
1) Had you heard of the game before you looked it up? I've been following the Japanese gaming scene for a long time and I was aware of the game (assuming it's Kenji Eno's voice-only game), but I didn't realize it was anyone's favorite game of all time. Pretty surprising! If you weren't surprised I'm impressed! You know Japan better than I do!
2) It's a voice-only game, so I'm not sure the localization would have taken that much effort if it's really one of the best games of all time. Shouldn't there at least be a fan-translation?
-Wes |
1.) I'd heard of it and I did know that! I think the majority of votes for that game probably came from people who bought it when it was released for the PSP recently. I follow the Japanese gaming scene too!
2.) Since it's a voice-only game, that actually makes it much, much harder to localise. You'd have to either program custom subtitling routines, since there aren't any in-game, or you'd have to re-record all the dialogue in english. Either way, it's no mean feat. Also in terms of subject matter it's not as alluring to the Saturn hacking community as a JRPG or something featuring Lolicon would be, so it's little wonder no-one's stepped up to bat. Also I don't think Saturn games are all that easy to hack, put next to something like a SNES game.
Keep on pitchin' the slow balls, Wes! |
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Ryan - SuperWes' Bane .
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 295 Location: I have no idea what I'm talking about
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: |
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That list seems perfect considering the type of people who read and reply to those types of things. I think the Otaku culture here is WAY more hardcore than back in the USA for example, and whereas more and more people of different backgrounds have gotten into video games in a country like America (for example the people that play sports games hardcore usually will NEVER pick up an RPG), Japan is still ruled by RPG players. There is also a SEVERE lack of games created outside of Japan. Halo, GTA, and the like will never have as much pull as Pokemon, Mario, and Final Fantasy does.
Also, the people that replied to that poll are probably skewing pretty damn young. They probably have never even touched a SNES, Dreamcast, or the original Nintendo. I think once you see the the originals, and how games have improved over the years, you get a better perception of what's good and what's not. At least FFVII isn't on the list. The game was great when it first came out, but things change. |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: |
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Ryan - SuperWes' Bane wrote: | stuff |
Did you even read the post? First of all, FFVII is the 4th game on the list, so yes it is on there. Second of all, it's not the Pokemon, Marios, Dragon Quests and Final Fantasys that are surprising (which, by the way, Pokemon isn't on there), it's the rest of the stuff. Does Machi not surprise you either?
While we're back on this topic, how the hell did Monster Hunter get top spot? It's for the PSP, which to my understanding isn't a very popular system (but has been selling better because of Monster Hunter games for some reason), and (and this is key) it's not very good at all!
-Wes _________________
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Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
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Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: |
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I love it when Wes argues with a guy with 'Superwes' Bane' in his name. |
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Ryan - SuperWes' Bane .
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 295 Location: I have no idea what I'm talking about
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: |
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SuperWes wrote: | Ryan - SuperWes' Bane wrote: | stuff |
Did you even read the post? First of all, FFVII is the 4th game on the list, so yes it is on there. Second of all, it's not the Pokemon, Marios, Dragon Quests and Final Fantasys that are surprising (which, by the way, Pokemon isn't on there), it's the rest of the stuff. Does Machi not surprise you either?
While we're back on this topic, how the hell did Monster Hunter get top spot? It's for the PSP, which to my understanding isn't a very popular system (but has been selling better because of Monster Hunter games for some reason), and (and this is key) it's not very good at all!
-Wes |
My bad on the FFVII thing. I was looking more at the Japanese games on there like Super Robot Taisen and the like. Brain fart. PSP is enjoying quite a large expansion of players here, and I don't think it's because of Monster Hunter. The system is the best thing Sony has going for it at the moment I think. The new monster hunter game looks more like a MMORPG to me, something new to most Japanese young people perhaps due to the lack of computer users at that age (Only 20% of my students know how to even use a computer and I would bet that only 1% have ever played an online game like WoW.) Check out the website for yourself.
http://www.capcom.co.jp/monsterhunter/P2nd/
I have no idea how that Machi game got such a high ranking.
None of the other games are a shock to me. The video gaming population over here is still too skewed to RPGs more than any other genre. You'll never see any foreign games in any of these lists I bet, even though many are better in most respects to some of the games listed. I also wonder how this poll was conducted. Were people only able to write in one game? Were they able to vote a couple times? I mean, maybe all the Machi players got together and used all 10 of their votes to vote their game in or something like that. |
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sallyxi .
Joined: 25 May 2008 Posts: 3 Location: Clinton Township, Michigan
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Don`t try to understand their ridiculous favorites, it`s really needless... |
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Wall of Beef .
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 66 Location: Slightly south of the Great White North.
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Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Only ONE game from pre-PS1/Saturn?!
What a bunch of trendy morons. |
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Ryan - SuperWes' Bane .
Joined: 05 Mar 2005 Posts: 295 Location: I have no idea what I'm talking about
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Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Talked to my buddy who works at Capcom in Tokyo this weekend, and he was at a total loss as to why Monster Hunter 2 was such a popular game. He said it was an incredibly shallow game and the only reason it works well in Japan is that people are so close together, making it easy to use the Wifi function. He said it probably would never work in the USA cause everybody is so spread out over there. We talked a little about SF 4 too. |
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Access .
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Japan, you are not America |
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I dont really see whats wrong with the list. All the games im familiar with on there are all exceptional.
Granted I personally would include Rez and Ico on there some where but still.
And Machi sounds innovative and original to me . |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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well, for a list of ALL TIME FAVORITES, the oldest game on that list is from 1995; thirteen years isn't a very long ALL TIME. most of them are much more recent. hell, the nintendo ds version of dragon quest IV? many of these games aren't even old enough that we can begin to consider their place in the history of videogames.
then again, this is both from famitsu and a list, making it doubly irrelevent. _________________
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Access .
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah but all my favourite games are more recent.
My partner enjoyed Final Fantasy X more then any of the other Final Fantasys.
I also think Grim Fandango and Longest Journey/Dreamfall are better than all the Point and Click adventure games before it. (Although Monkey Island is still the funniest game ive played).
Beyond Good and Evil / Prince of Persia Sands of Time I found to be the best action adventure titles ive ever played.
Metal Gear Solid series and Ico/Shaodw of the Colossus are games I think are unrivaled in the action space for direction and themes that appeal to me.
I think Mario Galaxy is the best ludological platformer I've ever played. And think Psychonaughts is the best narrative based one.
And I grew up in the 8bit computing era and have played games all my life. Nor do I think graphics are majorly important.
For me the themes, writing and directing are more appealing to me and perhaps general audiences today then anything from over a decade ago. _________________
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:29 am Post subject: |
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Access wrote: | Nor do I think graphics are majorly important. |
They're majorly important. But not in the way that you're talking about, which I think is referring to the beefing up of graphical engines to suit more powerful technology.
Glad to meet you Access, but have you properly introduced yourself? _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Ryan - SuperWes' Bane wrote: | He said it was an incredibly shallow game and the only reason it works well in Japan is that people are so close together, making it easy to use the Wifi function. |
I actually brought this up to Matt while he was over as the reason it's probably so popular. Still, it doesn't explain that much at all since the game's pretty lame regardless of how you're playing it. The original Monster Hunter was online AND had no monthly fee and wasn't anywhere near as popular as this. It's like they removed features for the PSP version and suddenly interest spiked. I truly wonder how big Monster Hunter 3 will be, seeing as how it's a Wii game and all.
-Wes _________________
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Access .
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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I still dont get all the hate on Famitsu.
Its Japans oldest, most popular games publication and is tough with reviews. Only 6 games have ever had 40 / 40.
And yes glad to meet you to helicopterp, I try to avoid introduction threads and jump head first in _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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Access wrote: | Only 6 games have ever had 40 / 40. |
only six publishers paid enough. (review scores in famitsu are basically bought and sold.) _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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(which is not to say famitsu's much different from most other game magazines.) _________________
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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The Gamer's Quarter: Famitsu Can Blow Us _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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Access .
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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Evidence?
As far as I can tell Hirokazu Hamamura is a tough bastard. I mean sure he's a bit xenophobic to Western games, but thats not a "him" thing thats a Japanese thing. And he still outwardly at all his panels that ive read, still seems open to the Xbox 360 etc.
And there would be an absolute scandal if that was tried on some of the more credible magazines today. However I hear horror stories from a lot of the less respect sources (online and off) like GameSpot etc.
But there is no way Margaret Robertson at Edge for example would put up with that rot. _________________
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Swimmy .
Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA
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Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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It's not that they're not tough on reviews, it's that, what the hell, look at the games that got 40/40. Of all the games that have ever been released, those are the best? Seems like an argument against giving the magazine much weight, to me. But yeah, Japan is not America.
By the way, 8 now, including SSB and MGS4. _________________
"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin |
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Wall of Beef .
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 66 Location: Slightly south of the Great White North.
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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SSBB got a 40/40? I have to imagine in retrospect they will wish they did not give it that. I like the game, and its fun. But its hardly "Perfect" Considering the whole platformer portion controls like shit. I would give it mid to high 30's, but 40?! No.
I would say that list is extremely embarrassing for their gaming culture. The Machi aspect is very interesting, but maybe moreso because its surrounded by so many sequels (high numbered sequels).
I have a feeling if this list comes out 3 years from now, it will be many of the same game, just the increased number for its sequal. I would really doubt you would see Lost Odyssey, Ryuha Gotoku 2, Okami, on there again. |
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Access .
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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Wall of Beef wrote: |
I would say that list is extremely embarrassing for their gaming culture. |
I bet they say the same thing about American best game lists too. How often is Doom voted number 1? They must think thats "embarrassing for their gaming culture" as well.
You're just being ethnocentric. Fighting games are more revered in Japan then in Australia or other western countries and Smash Bros is a critically acclaimed series over there, even if in the West people see it as 'Versus Fighters Lite'.
Swimmy wrote: | Seems like an argument against giving the magazine much weight, to me. |
Well thats great that you disagree with there reviews. But thats neither here nor there.
Im sure many Japanese people see magazines giving Halo 3, BioShock, Gears of War or Oblivion getting perfect scores and are completely baffled what they are smoking... I know I am. _________________
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Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
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Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think I've ever seen DooM at number one, actually. And a list with DooM at number one would be a great list!
The lists I see over here these days have stuff like Deus Ex and Half-Life 2 in the top five. Granted, I don't read that many lists anymore.
From what I understand, Famitsu is the same kind of trashy gaming rag that we can get in the rest of the world. Never read it myself, though. _________________
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SuperWes Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 3725
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:00 am Post subject: |
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Oooh. I found the 2006 list. Check this shit out:
Quote: | 1. Final Fantasy X (2001)
2. Final Fantasy VII (1997)
3. Dragon Quest III (1988)
4. Dragon Quest VIII (2004)
5. Machi (1998)
6. Final Fantasy IV (1991)
7. Tactics Ogre (1995)
8. Final Fantasy III (1990)
9. Dragon Quest VII (2000)
10. Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
11. Dragon Quest V (1992)
12. Far East of Eden 2 (1992)
13. Sakura Taisen (1996)
14. Dragn Quest IV (1990)
15. Final Fantasy V (1992)
16. Xenogears (1998)
17. Dragon Quest II (1987)
18. Sakura Taisen III (2002)
19. Kingdom Hearts (2002)
20. Streetfighter II (1992)
21. Super Mario Bros (1985)
22. Final Fantasy VIII (1999)
23. Toki Meki Memorial (1995)
24. Final Fantasy IX (2000)
25. Final Fantasy VI(1994)
26. Metal Gear Solid 3 (2004)
27. Valkyrie Profile (1999)
28. Chrono Trigger (1995)
29. Kingdom Hearts II (2005)
30. Dragon Quest (1986)
31. Zelda 3 (1991)
32. Final Fantasy X-2 (2003)
33. Resident Evil (1996)
34. Dragon Quest VI (1995)
35. F-Zero (1990)
36. Sakura Taisen II (1998)
37. Mother 2 (1994)
38. Mother (1989)
39. Virtua Fighter (1994)
40. Dragon Quest 5 (PS2 remake) 2004
41. Zelda Windwaker (2002)
42. Metal Gear Solid 2 (2001)
43. Animal Crossing (DS) 2005
44. Tales of the Abyss (2005)
45. Ogre Battle (1993)
46. Legend of Zelda (1986)
47. Virtua Fighter 2 (1995)
48. Mysterious Dungeon 2 (1995)
49. Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)
50. Metal Gear Solid (1998)
51. Pokemon Red and Green (1996)
52. Y's 1 and 2 (1989)
53. Romancing Saga (1992)
54. Toke Meke Memorial (PC Engine) 94
55. Super Robot Taisen Alpha (2000)
56. Resident Evil 2 (1998)
57. Tales of Eternia (2000)
58. Digital Devil Story Megami Tensei II (1990)
59. Shin Megami Tensei (1992)
60. Final Fantasy II (1988)
61. Super Mario World (1990)
62. To Heart II (2004)
63. Final Fantasy (1987)
64. Puyo Puyo (1992)
65. Family Stadium Pro Baseball (1986)
66. Wizardry (1987)
67. Hokkaido Murder Mystery (1987)
68. Fire Emblem (1994)
69. Super Mario Kart (1992)
70. Dynasty Warriors 4 (2003)
71. Monster Hunter (2004)
72. Best Play Pro Baseball (1988)
73. Grandia (1997)
74. Resident Evil 4 (GC) 2005
75. Gran Turismo 4 (2004)
76. GTA: Vice City (2004)
77. Super Monaco GP (1990)
78. Torneko Mysterious Dungeon (1993)
79. Tales of Destiny (1997)
80. Streetfighter 2 Turbo (1993)
81. Dynasty Warriors III (2001)
82. Final Fight (1990)
83. Monster Hunter Portable (2005)
84. Final Fantasy Tactics (1997)
85. Minster Hunter G (2005)
86. Mysterious Dungeon 2 (2000)
87. Kung Fu (1985)
88. Toke Meke Memorial (Saturn) (1996)
89. Tales of Destiny II (2002)
90. Kamaitachi No Yoru (1994)
91. Sakura Taisen IV (2002)
92. Tales of Rebirth (2004)
93. Sim City (1991)
94. Saga 2 (1990)
95. Pro Baseball Family Stadium 87
96. Tetris (Gameboy) (1989)
97. Secret of Mana (1993)
98. Gradius (1986)
99. Super Mario Bros III (1988)
100. Resident Evil IV (PS2) 2005 |
Gotta say I'm surprised to see Machi on there on this list too. I guess that wasn't a flavor of the month inspired by the PSP re-release! It's also interesting to see Monster Hunter Portable jump from 83 to 1 and Super Robot Wars jump from 55 to 13. It's also interesting to see Ocarina of Time jump off of the list altogether from being in the top 10. The introduction of Persona 3 FES from out of nowhere is pretty cool too.
As for the Famitsu hate, I've never totally understood it either, but whatever. For the whole year I lived in Japan I picked up Famitsu every single week and flipped through it. I had a dresser completely packed with every issue I'd bought, and the day I left I put them all into a bunch of plastic bags and left them in my house to be hauled off for recycling. Not sure why that's important, but I guess the point is that I've seen a few issues of the magazine and it's not too shabby.
Picking up an issue in the states you might think it's absolutely incredible that something so big can come out every single week and still be going strong after so many years, but comparing it to the rest of the publications in Japan it's really not that different from anything else on the market. Japan's such a small county and they're such a hugely print-reliant culture that there are weekly magazines for nearly anything you can think of. I actually preferred a magazine called Nintendo Dream, which always came with some sort of odd piece of Nintendo crap. One week it would be a pencil board and the next would be a Smash Bros sample music CD, most weeks it would be a full page of small Nintendo character stickers, including GameCube Memory Card Stickers. This was the best and I still have probably 15 sheets full of random stickers floating around my basement somewhere. Oh yeah, and did I mention that it was under $5 an issue even with the extra crap?
So yeah, returning from my tangent, Famitsu is kinda the Japanese version of EGM. It's certainly got more information, but the Japanese game economy is set up in such a way that it's easy to get the information, and the weekly nature of the magazine coupled with super short printing and distribution cycles means that printing this type of information takes up several pages of the magazine with content fed to them basically for free. Putting the news and information aside, most of the magazine is just single page previews, lots of ads, a few essays tucked away in back, and a bunch of random non-game-related stuff thrown in so that they can put bikini girls on the cover every few weeks for extra bonus sales. As for the reviews, well, lets just say that they're also no different from EGM's reviews. If you keep a weekly eye on them you quickly start to notice the types of games they like and don't like. Occasionally something strange pops up (one month while I was there a WWE Wrestling game that got reamed in US mags got a really high score in Famitsu), but just like US magazines, they're pretty predictable overall.
Regardless, forget everything I said and start comparing today's list with the one from 2006. It's pretty interesting! Post interesting things!
-Wes _________________
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: |
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A friend of mine in Japan says in May they shut down the interesting Akihabara street fairs, w/ all the cosplay and crossdress and general geek and otaku culture fun.
(politicians saying its immoral and antisocial and blah blah frickin' blah)
And then a guy ran his SUV into 18 people and stabbed like 8 more. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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Access .
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: |
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ahh the 2006 list, thats the one im familiar with.
I approve this list. _________________
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Wall of Beef .
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 66 Location: Slightly south of the Great White North.
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Access wrote: |
You're just being ethnocentric. Fighting games are more revered in Japan then in Australia or other western countries and Smash Bros is a critically acclaimed series over there, even if in the West people see it as 'Versus Fighters Lite' |
Sheesh. Ethnocentric. Im sorry I think the game is more in the "mid to high 30's" rather than a perfect score of 40, I am so harsh! Also, the game is a critical success here in america, and has sold millions. Its plenty revered.
My complaint was purely in the Platforming game, which controls like garbage. And since its one of the main features of the game outside the brawling, I would say its poor control execution is enough to bring it down from Perfect status. |
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Access .
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Wall of Beef wrote: |
Sheesh. Ethnocentric. Im sorry I think the game is more in the "mid to high 30's" rather than a perfect score of 40, I am so harsh! Also, the game is a critical success here in america, and has sold millions. Its plenty revered.
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Indeed I appologise. I ended up chopping and changing my post around quite a bit and the ethnocentric comment was originally intended to describe the general vipe of the thread rather than you specifically.
But the quibbling over a 36 - 40 game is a prime example why scoring games with a metric is awful (which is adequately addressed in the other thread). _________________
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Swimmy .
Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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As for the ethnocentric vibe, yes American magazines suck too. I think they suck for the exact same reason Famitsu sucks, or at least is boring to someone like me. So it's a pretty general thing. The weights different cultures give to various games can be interesting, but not anything to get worked up about. Just some more, "Oh hey, Japan is kinda different, huh?" on the internet. _________________
"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin |
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Access .
Joined: 03 Jun 2008 Posts: 27 Location: Australia
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Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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Well I'm Australian.
And I do enjoy any opportunity to say how crap American developers are (with a few exceptions that prove the rule) while simultaneously talking up Japanese or European ones. So I flung to the defense of Japanese gaming tastes.
Although America has most of the strongest and successful independent developers. _________________
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