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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Oh, right, you're just trying to justify transphobia again. That's cool.
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| FortNinety wrote: | | I believe someone was inferring how Dess might have been singled out and given shit for trying to stand out from the crowd. Again, with the whole "it's discrimination!" angle. The other point being, most teachers, have seen it all and are rarely impressed. |
First off: it's generally me arguing the "discrimination" angle, though it's probably hinted at in some of the previous speculation on legal action.
Secondly: I'm arguing a fairly specific and I think defensible point here: not that she was singled out for being picked on, but speculating that a clean cut white guy questioning assumptions has less of a chance of getting kicked out than a TG gal asking making those same questions.
| Quote: | | EDIT: ... Then again, that is precisely what happened: the administrator foresaw problems down the road and decided to dismiss Dess. Again, I think they handled themselves quite justly. |
I think I may have been asked to leave a consulting gig once for something similar to this, where I strongly disagreed with a technical point and made a big fuss about it. I finally gave in but it was too late.
Maybe Dess has some similar "growing up" to do in terms of picking battles. And school is one place to do that; my "learning experience" was in a professional environment, I think the school is within "can" but outside "should" with this kind of reaction.
If she does the work and well, let her stay. Don't play prophet about "down the line".
| Quote: | | Also, everything K Thor said about games being a collaborative effort. |
I find when professional software development goes wrong, ego is a part, a small one, but for me it's more often about trying to argue for the Right Thing. (Sort of how back in high school, if there was a poorly worded multiple choice question that I was smart enough to see through and get right, I would still argue strenuously that a student picking the other ok answer should get the point.)
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JamesE
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Straight Up, Straight Down
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: |
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dracko unless we have any proof of transphobia in this case (we don't) I'm going to have to ask you to shut the fuck up
fort's issues are fort's issues and I have adressed them as such
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kthorjensen
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 12
Location: NYC
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: |
I find when professional software development goes wrong, ego is a part, a small one, but for me it's more often about trying to argue for the Right Thing. (Sort of how back in high school, if there was a poorly worded multiple choice question that I was smart enough to see through and get right, I would still argue strenuously that a student picking the other ok answer should get the point.) |
Thinking that you have unassailable knowledge of the Right Thing = ego.
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| kthorjensen wrote: | | kirkjerk wrote: |
I find when professional software development goes wrong, ego is a part, a small one, but for me it's more often about trying to argue for the Right Thing. (Sort of how back in high school, if there was a poorly worded multiple choice question that I was smart enough to see through and get right, I would still argue strenuously that a student picking the other ok answer should get the point.) |
Thinking that you have unassailable knowledge of the Right Thing = ego. |
Well, lots of smart, non-fundie people are smart enough not to call any idea unassailable.
The problem is making the judgement of when the stress and bad feeling from letting the darwinian struggle of ideas let the strongest survive is going to be more damaging than acquiescing to the authority such as it is and putting up with the bad one. It's a maturity issue, and (to continue semi-founded speculation) I guess this kind of submitting to authority (either of a prof/manager or a group consensus) is something that Domme Dess might have a harder time with. (Though I don't think it's fair to assume that she can't adopt different stances in her academic and personal career; while for some people 'it's a way of life', I wouldn't have picked up on domme thing from her video game related stuff.)
Hey K.Thor, did you know you're like about the only person I've actually met in this thread? You were signing stuff at Million Year Picnic in Cambridge w/ other collaborators in a 9/11 themed book.
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FortNinety
Pheonix Wright
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 250
Location: NY, NY
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: | I think I may have been asked to leave a consulting gig once for something similar to this, where I strongly disagreed with a technical point and made a big fuss about it. I finally gave in but it was too late.
Maybe Dess has some similar "growing up" to do in terms of picking battles. And school is one place to do that; my "learning experience" was in a professional environment, I think the school is within "can" but outside "should" with this kind of reaction. |
I have personally witnessed or heard of many instances, and perhaps you have as well, of someone, despite doing excellent work, at least enough to get the job done, perhaps even more so, still being dismissed from a group setting due to not being a "team player". Again, someone made the call that there would be problems down the road... something project managers do all the time.
Often times pure skillsets have nothing to do with landing or keeping a job, but how the person works with others. When I was teaching, I heard many former, just graduated students (not my own, but the school's in general) bitch and moan about somone landing a sweet gig even if the complainer was perhaps more qualified for the position. And these people couldn't understand that most would rather work with someone who was maybe not stellar, but had room to grow, and most importantly wanted to be a team player, or at the very least was pleasant to be around, instead of a super talented maven with inter-personal issues with something to constantly prove. Cuz, you know, we ALL want to change the world and have the next big idea. Every one of us.
| JamesE wrote: | | fort's issues are fort's issues and I have adressed them as such |
Thanks dad. |
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JamesE
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Straight Up, Straight Down
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
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it's ok, son!
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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this thread is a battlefield.
kirk, don't feel obligated to defend me.
i just bought my computer back and i'm going to start putting my portfolio together.
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kirkjerk
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Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1227
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| dessgeega wrote: | | kirk, don't feel obligated to defend me. |
Well, you know. A penchant for arguing especially when something seem right or wrong.
Actually my views have been somewhat re-refined by this thread, which is a good thing, though I probably have about the same core...
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Wow.
This is getting locked for obvious reasons, and if personal attacks don't stop I'll start banning.
If you've posted in this thread within the last 24 hours consider yourself warned.
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