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Let's Talk about The Gamer's Quarter

 
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: Let's Talk about The Gamer's Quarter Reply with quote

So Issue #3 comes out tomorrow and we had a lot of ideas to improve the magazine's design and content, most of which got put off until the next issue, but a little of which snuck its way into this issue. You'll find out tomorrow!

Anyway, I'm creating this topic to ask people that aren't so close to the magazine (and maybe a few who are) what they would like to see the Gamer's Quarter do in the future. This includes design suggestions, content suggestions, and perhaps even merch suggestions. If everything goes according to plan, we should have a store opening up within the month.

So yeah, what kind of stuff do you want to see in future Issues of TGQ?

-Wes
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friedchicken
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shall bite, but with a suggestion of what to keep doing rather than what's not being done and should be. Sorry if that's not exactly what you're looking for, but... well hey, it's my input.

I get a real sense from TGQ that people are writing about what they WANT to write about, rather than what many, many publications do-- write only about the popular or trendy, or what some publications do-- write about what happens to be already heavily advertised. That's the sort of thing that makes it an interesting read.

That's why I'm always happy to read TGQ. Plus it helps that I come by the forums here pretty often, probably predisposing me to want to hear what you guys have to say.

Now when you say store, what kind of things do you currently plan on offering, or is it entirely up in the air? Personally, I'd like to see game-inspired art-- you know, prints and such, like the sort of thing that was at the I am 8-bit show.

Anyway, I hope that helps.
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm. Well, I suppose I can drop a few not-so-secret sneak previews to entice people to post in this topic...




(images unwillingly contributed by dessgeega)

-Wes
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Mister Toups
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I WANT THOSE BUTTONS

That is all.
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nICO
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I might order a T-shirt if you sell one. Especially if it looks half-way decent and is better quality than the standard HP iron on paper.

As for comments on the mag, I'll wait and see what the new issue has to offer first.
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nICO
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yeah, it would be nice if someone wanted to take the time to professionalize the design of the front page. It's nice and quite functional right now, and only some tweaks here and there would be required (unless someone really did want to redesign from the ground up). I like crap like this so I could probably offer a bunch of suggestions, but most important would be to have someone design a nice, clean logo. The text is just...bleh.
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Lackey
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey...is issue number 3 out yet?
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Mr. Mechanical
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not yet, but soon. Hopefully!
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nICO wrote:
Oh yeah, it would be nice if someone wanted to take the time to professionalize the design of the front page. It's nice and quite functional right now, and only some tweaks here and there would be required (unless someone really did want to redesign from the ground up). I like crap like this so I could probably offer a bunch of suggestions, but most important would be to have someone design a nice, clean logo. The text is just...bleh.


We're looking into those kind of changes actually. We had a few alternate designs for this cover, but we decided to stick with this one because we want to impltement the changes all at once. Here's a taste:



This was what we had in mind. I think the staff generally prefers a more sparse and straightforward layout. It's easier to mess up things when they become complicated.

Regardless, drop some suggestions in here and maybe it will inspire us to make some changes.

-Wes
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Persona-sama
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That should have been the cover!
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Sushi d
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i say we should find some way to have at least 1 peice of game inspired ar per issue...

something classy and well done..




like this...

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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that picture makes me think of the tragedy of the mario brothers.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Mario 3 article is easily the best piece from TGQ so far, in my mind.

But on the other hand the Jack Niida interview made me want to kill myself. I recognize that TGQ is small, and anything we can get from recognized sources is good, and we all heart N1, but I found myself immediately wondering what the point is of interviewing someone who can't speak candidly. It's this marketing buzzword doublespeak that's no better than an E3 presentation; by comparison last issue's Seiklus interview was both personally and professionally engaging. When you speak to a game's developer, you can come up with insight into the creative process, and the backstory on the game, etc. Marketing folks seem to be unable to provide any more than "We looked and some numbers here... and talked to people with money there... and took another look at target markets in this region..."

Which is not to say it's not important at some level; it is good to know how niche marketers are thinking and how they may direct the future of quirky JRPGs in the US, but I found myself extremely disappointed by its presence in TGQ. It felt impersonal and hollow and just like something I could have gotten from IGN.

What do you folks think about expanding the main page to include stuff like this, enabling you to officially publish all the material you can get, but keeping the issues themselves more focused?

I'm not trying to be negative; TGQ continues to be my favorite gaming publication and, despite a couple weak elements, issue #3 is the best so far. I want to close with a word of thanks for providing a space for the intelligent exploration of gaming and for all the work you put into it to keep it going. Cheers.
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Bai
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Write more professionally. Speak honestly and without ego. Be clear and concise in your explanations. Avoid swearing; it is trashy and does not impress.

Avoid 'retro'-style articles. Let's move gaming forward instead of rose-tinting the past.

Avoid grand, unqualified, unsupported theories about the state of videogames. If you want to publish your ideas, develop them more and do some research.

Really like the comics! Keep that stuff coming!
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

simplicio wrote:
But on the other hand the Jack Niida interview made me want to kill myself. I recognize that TGQ is small, and anything we can get from recognized sources is good, and we all heart N1, but I found myself immediately wondering what the point is of interviewing someone who can't speak candidly.


I've been wanting to respond to this post ever since I first read it but haven't been able to track it down! Anyway, this interview was really only half of the interview we proposed. Matt sent in questions targetted at every area of Nippon Ichi, but all we got back was the stuff regarding localization. Matt wasn't going to print it at all, but I had him send me what he was able to get back and I thought there was enough interesting stuff left to print. It's not quite the article he invisioned, but I do think what's left explores interesting areas that we rarely think of.

As for putting stuff on the main page, that's something we'll have to think about. I don't want to misrepresent our magazine by making the weakest of its articles the easiest ones to access, but it would be a good idea to do something with the site in between issues.

Thank you for your comments everyone. The writing advice will be passed on to the staff and we'll do some mulling.

-Wes
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wourme
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bai wrote:
Avoid swearing; it is trashy and does not impress.

I've wondered at times whether expletives really do have a writer's intended effect on some people. To me, they simply cheapen writing and make it sound childish.

I've seen discussions of this topic in the letters columns of two different video game magazines in the past few years. I think that in both cases, the staff cited the age of the target audience as justification. Aren't people supposed to be LESS impressed with such things as they get older? I'd hope so.

And speaking of letters columns, something like that might be a nice addition. It sometimes brings out more thoughtful responses than a forum because it's more permanent. But then, such a thing might not exactly fit TGQ. I don't know.

--
edit: That picture up there reminds me of another picture. I have no idea of its origin (or its proper file name): image
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Mister Toups
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing about a letters column is that I doubt anyone would write in.

Still, I think if dhex did it, it would be really humorous.

I use swear words mostly because that's how I speak. I don't ever do things like insert them in after the fact to make it more "edgy" or anything. I often end up removing them, in fact.

Still, sometimes you need a good fucking.

Am I right?
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sometimes no other word but "fuck" will do.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people use swearing effectively in speaking or in writing dialog or casual things, but in serious essays and things it just takes me out of whatever's being said and makes me wonder what the writer's trying to do, exactly. I mean, it draws attention away from the topic instead of emphasizing it and focuses on the writer. And not in a positive way. But again, the effect could very well be quite different for other readers.

--

I wonder if instead of a letters column, there could be some sort of ongoing debate about things. Or a long-term call for opinions or discussion of something, and after enough good responses are collected, they are printed. I just know that it really builds loyalty when readers can somehow have a part in a publication. But I guess that element might already be present, as dedicated readers who want to try their hand at writing articles seem to have a chance of doing so.
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dhex
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would wholeheartedly enjoy eding a letters column.
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dark steve
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is really as good as a letters column would get right here though, isn't it?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wourme wrote:
Some people use swearing effectively in speaking or in writing dialog or casual things, but in serious essays and things it just takes me out of whatever's being said and makes me wonder what the writer's trying to do, exactly. I mean, it draws attention away from the topic instead of emphasizing it and focuses on the writer. And not in a positive way.

Always? One of the problems with making arguments against profanity is that it's easier to spot and to remember when it's used badly.

For example, I just did a search for "fuck" in TGQ#3 to see how accurate my memory was. As I remembered, "Why I Am Not a Gamer" had more than its share. In fact, it had ten occurrences of "fuck" or variants on it, though two were used in an anecdote about how fifth-graders think the word "fuck" is cool. In addition, the same anecdote used the phrase "the f-word."

I didn't think there were any other instances in the issue, but I was wrong:

dhex, in 'We Shall Meet in the Place Where There Is No Darkness,' wrote:
Orwell wrote 1984 the way he did because he loved literature and he loved the English language. His greatest villain destroys both with a callous disregard for the sublime human ability to meld words and ideas that Orwell admired and defended. Of course, he was also making a giant, hand-drawn fuck-you poster to the Communists and Stalinists whose company he had parted, but his loathing for those who treat language as a means to political end drips off every page of 1984.

I didn't remember that one because it fits so well into the language. It's not doing what profanity is supposed to do, it isn't there to impress or shock, it communicates rage. So I don't flag it as a mark of an immature writer, I'm too busy empathizing with that visceral statement, too busy looking to see what's been written next.

"Shit" is used by more authors, but has only seven occurences to "fuck"'s eleven. Again, Jutla has the lion's share, four in "Why I Am Not a Gamer." Only one of these is used to describe the act of defecating:

Tim Rogers, in 'Life Non-Warp: DX,' wrote:
I was vomiting base and shitting acid.

Again, I think this is a beautiful, visceral sentence. (This one literally evokes turbulent viscera.)

I agree with Bai's statement that "swearing" does not impress. But when profanity is employed otherwise, the effect can be transparent and transcendent.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tablesaw wrote:
wourme wrote:
Some people use swearing effectively in speaking or in writing dialog or casual things, but in serious essays and things it just takes me out of whatever's being said and makes me wonder what the writer's trying to do, exactly. I mean, it draws attention away from the topic instead of emphasizing it and focuses on the writer. And not in a positive way.

Always? One of the problems with making arguments against profanity is that it's easier to spot and to remember when it's used badly.

...

I agree with Bai's statement that "swearing" does not impress. But when profanity is employed otherwise, the effect can be transparent and transcendent.

I guess I was responding more generally to the idea than commenting on specific TGQ articles. But it's true that examples tend to stand out, and I have noticed them at least somewhere in every issue so far--used effectively or not, vulgarity is one of the general impressions that the magazine has given off, for me.
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ajutla
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I PROBABLY SHOULD NOT SAY THIS, BUT:

The number of times I use the word "fuck" in any given piece is meant as a deliberate indicator.

I don't want to state what it's a deliberate indicator of, at this juncture.

(direct reference is made to that word exactly eleven times in "Pongism," too.)
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tablesaw wrote:
dhex, in 'We Shall Meet in the Place Where There Is No Darkness,' wrote:
Orwell wrote 1984 the way he did because he loved literature and he loved the English language. His greatest villain destroys both with a callous disregard for the sublime human ability to meld words and ideas that Orwell admired and defended. Of course, he was also making a giant, hand-drawn fuck-you poster to the Communists and Stalinists whose company he had parted, but his loathing for those who treat language as a means to political end drips off every page of 1984.

I didn't remember that one because it fits so well into the language. It's not doing what profanity is supposed to do, it isn't there to impress or shock, it communicates rage. So I don't flag it as a mark of an immature writer, I'm too busy empathizing with that visceral statement, too busy looking to see what's been written next.

This is just right.

I really want people to know that in both pongism and now the starcraft piece that I confirmed with ajutla personally that it was the intent to draw upon such a frequent use of the word fuck. Each time I asked I received the same answer; I know what it will read like to people and am looking for that response. So I guess I am saying that we knew and expected this response in advance. We are not really being broadsided by it. As you pointed out earlier Dhex uses it to mastery while it sticks out as excessive in Ajutla's. All intentional; enjoyed or not.
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting. I didn't know this. Shaper also wanted me to change the word "boobs" to "breasts" in the Ghost in the Shell article. I didn't do it because my intentions when using the word "boobs" instead of "breasts" was to indicate that Shirow's art treats the female organs as childish and gratuitous objects instead of body parts. In other words, "boobs" not "breasts!"

Sometimes we put too much thought into things.

-Wes
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i loved editing that piece. you have no idea.
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
i loved editing that piece. you have no idea.


Actually, the endless string of "you sexist pig" comments were a good indication!

-Wes
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Bai
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just finished reading the mag completely and I liked John Szczepaniak's "Why Game?" article the best.

This might be a rough template for future NGJ pieces: direct, candidly written and with just enough of a personal glimpse into the author's life to present a new perspective on videogaming. A bit short on words but the basic idea is there. I'd like to see more articles like this, please!
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We Shall Meet In The Place Where There is no Darkness really grabbed me. It's the only one I've read more than once so far.
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nICO
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bai wrote:
This might be a rough template for future NGJ pieces


Though I read that particular article, I don't recall what it was like, so I can't comment on that directly. I think a discussion about what makes a successful NGJ piece would be interesting, however. (feel free to split this thread if you so choose, of course)

The issue of NGJ is addressing the experience of playing the game. Naturally, then, most important is that the writing always center on the game and the writer's interactions with it. Personal threads are meant only to provide context and illuminate the individual experience of playing.

A piece that's actually about the writer's life, but includes discussion about games can still be good, but I don't really consider it NGJ. Just plain old fiction. Tim's original Life Non-Warp is an excellent example of this. It's not really NGJ since the point isn't exactly Mario 3, but it's still one of my favorite things I've read.

Life Non-Warp is an exception, though...even among Tim's own work. It knows that the point isn't really Mario 3 itself. Reading LNW, you get the impression that any game Tim played at the right time could have take Mario 3's place.

Tim's Metroid Prime review is pretty successful NGJ from a more analytical angle. It's still about the writer's interaction with the game, but personal emotions and context are kept to a minimum.

Seroygin's Four Games is a good example of NGJ from a more personal and contextual angle. All of the drama only serves to illuminate what makes the games so special and how they affected him.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2005 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my copy of the Gamer's Quarter (with a couple of stickers) this week. Note: the stickers are cool.

Now I can finally read Tim's article without hating myself (because no way am I going to tolerate reading that much text at a time on a screen).

The only complaint I have with it so far is that the screenshots and pictures look dark sometimes. All of the pictures without clear, defined lines need to go through a small gamma adjustment. The cartoon art (Persona's and Lestrade's, as well as some of the stuff from the sky gunner review) looks just fine.

I'm really happy with it! thanks doodz!!!!!!!!

Also: a couple miscellaneous design criticisms:

glow text on back? Errr, not too fond of that.
the arc is mismatched with the bottom border on the back, just noticeably so.
Is that picture of gordon freeman on the back supposed to be cut off? It doesn't look intentional.

The front cover is fine, though, and the interior layouts are great.

Willl I ever see the first two issues in print?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sawtooth wrote:
Also: a couple miscellaneous design criticisms:

glow text on back? Errr, not too fond of that.
the arc is mismatched with the bottom border on the back, just noticeably so.
Is that picture of gordon freeman on the back supposed to be cut off? It doesn't look intentional.

The front cover is fine, though, and the interior layouts are great.

Willl I ever see the first two issues in print?

We had some learning experiences with the cover (front+back) I can say that. The mismatched border and the picture are both half our fault and half the fault of the printer we went with. The ink is also off just a little through the whole magazine. We learned a few things about it so hopefully these things won't happen again. The glow text... well, we are not professional designers, sorry about that.

As far as the first two issues, it all depends on the sales of the current issues. If we 100% sell out of issue 3 then we will have the money to start printing back issues in small numbers. So just tell other people about the quality of the quarterly and bring in some sales.
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