View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: "classic" era gaming: Greek, or just Paleolithic |
|
|
So in keeping up with TGQ's mandate for subjective video game interpretation (i.e. an excuse to talk about games in my favorite context of me, me, me)
Mentioning that obscure-ish "Alien" license tie-in for the Atari 2600 in that other thread made me realize how to a large extent New Games Journalism (heheh) seems to start with the NES-era, with a few exceptions (the biggest and most iconographic names, Pong, Space Invaders, Donkey Kong, Pac-Man -- all arcade and not of the consoles of the time.)
I can think of 3 reasons for that:
1. Just plain demographics. A lot of the people doing interesting stuff in modern game criticism are 20-somethings and might not have a lot of hands on experience with pre-"Crash" stuff.
2. The NES era really was a quantum leap forward in graphical complexity; the difference between largely monochrome characters and one with just a few shades is tremendous, in terms of pixel-art options.
3. In a similar way, the NES era really marked the rise of console gaming. The generation before that was really driven by the arcade, and (as my 2-hour GloriousTrainwreck entries show) it tends to be easier to do games that just loop / get progressively harder / "play for score". The NES with games like Zelda and Metroid really opened up a new era of exploration and "long form" games.
So I don't know how most people feel about "classic" games here, especially the consoles like Atari 2600, Intellivision, and Colecovision. To be frank, I don't play 'em that much myself, but I wonder if people who didn't grow up with it feel that it's an interesting age (with some surprising complexities) but a different style, or whether the stuff is so primitive that it's more "like video games, but blockier".
(Just a bit of my history: I grew up under largely frugal circumstances, but thanks to the crash managed to hit a motherload of Atari 2600 games all in one fell swoop. This 100-odd cartridge collection, much larger than most folks', saw me through 'til I got an NES only a few years after it was The Thing to have. Then in college, I connected with the community on Usenet, rec.games.video.classic (ahh, the arguments about whether the "classic" in the forum name referred to "anything old but good" or a specific era of early-80s video games-- and the dumb, comic-influenced Era-based naming schemes people who thought the latter would come up ) and later migrated to AtariAge.com , a very vibrant community that really has a wide view of all the eras of gaming . Also a few years ago I reach my Classic Games Geek Zenith by writing and getting published an original homebrew game for the Atari 2600...) _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com
Last edited by kirkjerk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
i grew up with a 2600 (and a gemini when that died)
i sold my collection in '97 for a buttload of money, comparatively.
i still like yar's revenge, but outside of airlock the rest i can take or leave. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dhex wrote: | i grew up with a 2600 (and a gemini when that died)
i sold my collection in '97 for a buttload of money, comparatively.
i still like yar's revenge, but outside of airlock the rest i can take or leave. |
Yeah... on the 2600, some games like the microcosm of Adventure, the little critters in Cosmic Ark, the algorithmic elegance and aesthetic of River Raid, the multiplayer exploration of Warlords or even Combat... they're all great, but there is so much that really hasn't weathered that well, there really were such sharp limits... _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Redeye .
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 986 Location: filth
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yar's Revenge?
Why did they call that thing a "Quotile"?
Dragonstomper for the Supercharger cassette-tape 2600 interface was pretty cool, as was Phaser Patrol.
My fave for the 2600 will probably always be the Combat cartridge.
I also had a Colecovision, and for that War Games ruled, especially the endgame readout. _________________ I felt sheer anarchic joy when I ran over my first pedestrian. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i always presumed they misspelled quintile. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lackey .
Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I read some trivia once that it was from someone's name...I can't seem to turn that up in my half-hearted internet search though. _________________ | Little bird fighting against a bat sect game | |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Redeye .
Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 986 Location: filth
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Searching for Quotile/etc. I stumbled on [url=http://wonkette.com/politics/dept'-of-phasers-on-stun/protesting-hippies-to-be-forced-to-taste-awful-vegan-meals-twice-286800.php]this[/url].
I want a big searchlight version.
Even more fun would be
mirrors _________________ I felt sheer anarchic joy when I ran over my first pedestrian. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lackey wrote: | I read some trivia once that it was from someone's name...I can't seem to turn that up in my half-hearted internet search though. |
Yeah, wikipedia says "The Yar race and the planet Razak were named after Ray Kassar, CEO of Atari at the time." but haven't heard about Qotile _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
yar's revenge was ray kassar's revenge against the atari employees who abandoned the company to start third-party development houses. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Oh, my cousin had a 2600 and we played it all the time.
I just, you know, don't really have anything interesting to say about it. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cossix .
Joined: 14 Nov 2007 Posts: 87
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Basically because most of those games weren't really worth a damn. Console gaming from back then was mostly just a fad, and most of the titles were basically just rip-offs from each other. A lot more interesting work back then was done in the Mac area, really. If it was an arcade game it seemed like there was more thought put into it because they were a lot more expensive to manufacture, thus you've got some classics that have stuck around today. The consoles themselves were by and large pretty useless though.
I mean yeah there's exceptions to this, but basically it was all garbage and there's a reason why the industry crashed back then. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Seconded, I can give two shits about the Atari 2600. It was light years away from the interesting work being made in that era. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Cossix wrote: | Basically because most of those games weren't really worth a damn. Console gaming from back then was mostly just a fad, and most of the titles were basically just rip-offs from each other. A lot more interesting work back then was done in the Mac area, really. If it was an arcade game it seemed like there was more thought put into it because they were a lot more expensive to manufacture, thus you've got some classics that have stuck around today. The consoles themselves were by and large pretty useless though. |
All right you're raising my defensive hackles a bit, but I gotta think you're getting the dates mixed up - the industry crash was in '83, so the "back then" you're referring to predates the release of the Mac.
I don't think the "rip-off" factor was much more pronounced than in, say, the NES era; it's just that the games were severely limited in terms of ROM and RAM, and ultimately that was a severely limiting factor. (Heh, and if you see what the Atari was fundamentally designed to do, albeit in an open ended way, vs what programmers ended up able to do with it, it's pretty goddamn amazing. And then later consoles like the Intellivision and Colecovision upped the bar further.
Quote: | I mean yeah there's exceptions to this, but basically it was all garbage and there's a reason why the industry crashed back then. |
I think there were more exceptions than not, despite the paradox of that statement. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Harveyjames wrote: | Seconded, I can give two shits about the Atari 2600. It was light years away from the interesting work being made in that era. |
Which was... the Arcades? Or what? _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
|
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yep, the arcades, and the PC scene, I do believe
The 2600 was long before the NES and the ZX Spectrum, right? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Scratchmonkey .
Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
5 years.
First release:
Atari 2600 - 1977
ZX Spectrum - 1982
Commodore 64 - 1982
NES - 1983 (JPN), 1985 (USA) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Scratchmonkey wrote: | 5 years.
First release:
Atari 2600 - 1977
ZX Spectrum - 1982
Commodore 64 - 1982
NES - 1983 (JPN), 1985 (USA) |
Yeah, that's the chronology though sometimes it took a while for a system to really hit its stride. For example Atari didn't get beyond bleeps and bloops until Activision invented the idea of non-first party games in late 1979, and shortly thereafter upping A/V standards.
This all reminds me of the theory that it wasn't so much a crash as a radical shift over to the home computers of the era, where systems were more powerful, piracy was rife, and you had the excuse of needing a system to help you with your homework. This kind of held the fort until Nintendo came along and more interesting work was done on consoles once again.
Still despite the limitations of the early consoles there was some terrific gameplay explorations happening. There was little engine sharing, each game was roughly coded from scratch (with some library sharing) and so functional play was valued over content and each game was an isolated microcosm. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
The 2600 came out in 1977?? NO WAY |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
Harveyjames wrote: | The 2600 came out in 1977?? NO WAY |
yeah, though most of the games looked like utter crap, and some played that way too.
The system was designed for playing arcade ports of stuff like Pong, Night Driver, Outlaw, and Tanks. That it could be pushed in so many ways (say, for instance, Stargate/Defender 2 which I'd say holds its own against the NES port is a testament to a brilliant open-ended design.)
I do think there was more, and more interesting, work on this platform than most people here seem to be giving it credit for, but I admit the pleasures are sometimes subtle and sometimes even absent. Games did tend to be fast (you pretty much have little choice but to run at a full 60 FPS) and colorful.
Gah, I'm sounding like such an old crank. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com
Last edited by kirkjerk on Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
Harveyjames wrote: | Yep, the arcades, and the PC scene, I do believe |
Wait, PC scene? I assume you mean home computers in general, and not the PC-clone stuff that was just emerging and stuck in a ridiculous 4 color CGA and buzz the speaker ghetto... _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
kirkjerk wrote: | I do think there was more, and more interesting, work on this platform than most people here seem to be giving it credit for |
almost anything by activision, for example. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
the 2600 was my primary gaming system growing up, into the 90s, and then a 7800 which was clearly unloved by its former owner. i would scour garage sales around northern new jersey (walking to them, no less, having neither car nor bike) and pick up a bunch for free, often, because people didn't want to bother counting dimes. and since i got ten cents an hour at home for doing various kinds of yardwork and whatnot (demo work, decks, sinking posts, digging beds for vegetables, etc) it worked out pretty well.
so there were definitely some gems. haunted house comes to mind, and airlock (again) was fabu, and i even enjoyed ET. it's all i had, since i didn't know anyone else with a nes or anything else, so it was all i knew. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i admire haunted house a lot. my first console was a 7800 with ms. pac-man and missile command, and you know how that turned out. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dessgeega wrote: | i admire haunted house a lot. my first console was a 7800 with ms. pac-man and missile command, and you know how that turned out. |
I never got into Haunted House as much as Adventure, though they're in some ways similar. (Loved HH's googly eyes) There was just something so cool about the way the dragons and the bat followed their own agenda... its been longer since I've played HH but I don't think its enemies had as much liveliness. (It's so cool how Adventure is an attempt at making a direct-action port of a text adventure... also one of the very first easter eggs) _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i admire haunted house for evoking a sense of fear and anxiety which such minimal elements. i'm actually soon to be releasing a game that's an homage to it in many ways. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i never actually played adventure.
i never ever understood the sword quest game as a kid. it completely confused me. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dessgeega wrote: | i admire haunted house for evoking a sense of fear and anxiety which such minimal elements. i'm actually soon to be releasing a game that's an homage to it in many ways. |
You're right, it does a more admiral job w/ the ambiance.
Arguably, Adventure has a better sense of wonder and exploration, but it pales once familiarity sets in. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Speaking of E.T, I wish I could rip stuff from DVDs so I could upload this video I have about it being a HOT NEW GAME. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
handbrake?
yeah, handbrake! _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I could never get that to work. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
|
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
those videos would go great with this thread. they're an excellent snapshot of the era. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Ketch .
Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
handbrake no worky?
hmmm...i got nothing, then. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
|
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dhex wrote: | handbrake no worky?
hmmm...i got nothing, then. |
what? _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Intentionally Wrong .
Joined: 09 Sep 2005 Posts: 248 Location: [Subject Hometown Here]
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
kirk - handbrake is a mac dvd ripping software that's pretty good at what it does.
http://handbrake.fr/
the new versions are only for 10.5. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
|
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
For me this era of "classic" always connects to me with early computer games. Basically they were a step above home consoles, and a step behind the NES for a while when it did come out. I was just a bit too young to appreciate the Atari, and as a result can't stand most of the games for it. Most games for the atari feel like those 100-in-1 NES carts where there's like ten versions of Contra all with slightly different names and color schemes. I still have an atari and something like 30+ games, but those are actually my wife's and she has more a connection to that era than I do. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
|
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
dhex wrote: | handbrake no worky?
hmmm...i got nothing, then. |
Yeah, I keep getting some STATUS_ACCESS_VIOLATION error, which seems to be very common but no one seems to have a solution. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
fucking macs! _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
|
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm using Vista! _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
then use dvd decrypter, broseidon.
(i just presumed from your nick, etc) _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
|
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, that program did a great job of uh, moving files from the DVD to my computer. Doesn't really do anything else, it seems! _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
|
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, I got an idea and it WORKED.
I present to you, one of the most amazing gaming artifacts of the 80s.
Well, a small portion of it.
THE HOT NEW GAMES: E.T
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVhEZCIYHLg
EDIT: LOLLERSAUCE, some guy already uploaded most of the stuff from these videos. My E.T one is better, because I include the badass intro, but if you're interested in the other stuff on the videos, check this guy out (he has some other cool RETRO videos too):
http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&user=tr0d&page=2 _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
dhex Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004 Posts: 6319 Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
|
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
three cheers for sticktuitiveness. _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Cycle Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767
|
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
what has that got to do with the video
also i used a different program
what a coincedence, E.T is on the telly right now!
EDIT: oh its the 20th anniversary remix cg makes everything better!! _________________
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Harveyjames the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636
|
Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Cycle wrote: | what has that got to do with the video
also i used a different program
what a coincedence, E.T is on the telly right now!
EDIT: oh its the 20th anniversary remix cg makes everything better!! |
That's the only versin of ET I've seen!
I saw it for the first time over christmas.It's awesome. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
ApM Admin Rockstar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1210 Location: Ottawa, ON
|
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Woah, they stole the Space Quest theme from a "How To Beat E.T." video! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|