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Cycle
Mac daddy
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 Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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YES, it's the technique they used to simulate floors above floors, but it could also be used to make impossible environments. Basically, more than one location could occupy the same space on a map.
You know, like the tartas or whatever in doctor who. People could build a tiny structure, put a door on it, and have it lead to a massive environment, as a simple example. Some people did some crazy stuff with it, made my head spin. Bungie didn't make use of impossible environments that much in the game (Infinity did it a few times I think, but it was very subtle), the biggest example was a multiplayer map called 5D Space included with Marathon 2.
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helicopterp
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Cycle, did you like Ikaruga?
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know, I haven't played it!
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helicopterp
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| Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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because | Quote: | | I just don't see the appeal of playing a game constantly until you find "the perfect play". |
I think the appeal for me in both it and pac-man c.e. is the nagging feeling that i'm playing nowhere near perfection. It's like trying to count all the numbers between one and two.
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| Cycle wrote: | | Also, these are all JUST MY OPINION, so feel free to disagree! I'm here to make discussion, not prove how much better I am than all of you! |
It's kind of dumb that such disclaimers are seeming more necessary these days.
| Quote: | | Portal: I was really hoping for a challenging Loderunner-like game, |
Loderunner? Huh.
| Quote: | | but instead I got a game that focused too much on the narrative and, as I mentioned, I felt the game was deliberately made easy so that it wouldn't get held up too much. |
Hmm. Two thoughts:
1. I think you might be well along the bellcurve in terms of how easy this was for you, even apart from your experience with N.Drop.
2. In thinking of Loderunner V. Portal, I'm thinking of this as a wider trend in gaming. I think developers seem to be consciously reducing the frustration level of games. I remember noting this a bit in Portal, also in Mario Galaxies, and before in BioShock, but the trend has been around for longer than that.
Discussion of this thread, whether its good or bad or whatever might be worthy of a separate thread.
| Quote: | | Like I said, I was already spoiled by Narbacular Drop, which had some stellar user-made levels that were far better than anything the actual Portal crew made for both the original game and the new one. |
Yeah, I played N.Drop a while back, glitchy wonder that it was, but hadn't seen the mods.
From a design standpoint, the idea of not allowing portals to fire through portals was probably an improvement, I didn't think of that at first but it made N.Drop really is.
Never did pull off a crate run in that game, seemed like a serious challenge.
| Quote: | | Now, I felt bad for the people (imaginary people, in the game) that became attached to it. Though, they were a bit daft if they were stuck in the place that long to get attached to it, since all the puzzles up to that point was easy as pie. So maybe they deserved it. |
Err, presumably those people might not have had the same experience through the game as the main character. And maybe the companion cube has charms, pheromone, electroneuronic, or otherwise that don't translate through to the player via the main character.
| Quote: | | But yeah, I have high hopes for user made content that will prove the mechanic can be used for more than just a few tricks and actually challenge the player, but as for the game that we actually got... I found it disappointing. |
Well, some tougher challenges do open up in Portal, I found the advanced versions of the rooms tough and annoying enough not to bother with, but again I don't play games for the sake of challenge per se.
| Quote: | | Pac-Man C.E: Ok, I really loved this game at first, until I realised it was just as memory focused as the original game, if not more so. Really, it's like a racing game; racing around the same course again and again, learning each corner, finding the optimal path to shave those few seconds off (and gathering a greater score). |
So, is it patternable?
I know Pac-Man was, Ms. Pac-Man wasn't, thanks to a random number generator.
| Quote: | | Crackdown: Man, I just couldn’t get past the awful controls and camera. I’m glad I only rented it. |
Hmm. I didn't see the controls or camera as awful. That stupid spinning kick melee attack got old, but controls and camera seemed about par for the course, and I liked the aiming mechanic, where the player had to figure out where an enemy was, rather than an omniscient "target next enemy even if its behind me". The draw distance was also a treat.
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ee_emm_ecks
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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You can have fun with superplay-oriented titles by playing them for leisure if you're not an OCD prick about it. The whole Arcade ethos is based around 5 minutes of fun. They're games you kill some time with between doing one thing and another, nothing more.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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| ee_emm_ecks do you ever say anything that's not motivated your disdain for other people |
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dhex
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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if i had to redo things i would probably put crysis at #2 and bump portal, but give both that and perseus mandate extra lovely thumbs up for being neat in different ways.
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Dracko
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Cycle, all I remember in Infinity, beyond the dream oddities, is the mission where you have to sabotage the heavy armed suits and the level suddenly repeats itself. Basically when the weirdness creeps into normal activities, and it makes things all the more unsettling.
Somehow I don't think that's what you're referring to.
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ee_emm_ecks
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | ee_emm_ecks do you ever say anything that's not motivated your disdain for other people |
My disdain is purposeful. I'm being charitable by offering a new perspective. I present it the way I present it to filter out the carebears who actually think someone else can affect their emotions directly through words when how you react to speech is entirely up to you and your (usually arbitrary) standards of what is an acceptable way of going about things. If you just don't give a fuck, then it shows you're not concerned with bullshit and that your ego is focused in the right place and not on what others think of you, (you can't control what others think of you anyway, so who cares? be yourself)
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helicopterp
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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Tell you what. I'm pretty sure we don't need your charity.
| kirkjerk wrote: | | [So, is it patternable? |
As you turn more variables in the game into controls, yes. This is much easier in the opening minute. The ghosts, for instance, while I couldn't pin down but one or two real rules I know they follow, seem to obey a certain logic, and if you can control yourself well, you can direct a lot of their movements. It's pretty hard with the 360 pad's joystick when things get fast, though.
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dessgeega
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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emx, while your noble efforts are appreciated, stop being a douche.
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Dracko
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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dess, do you agree with this Pac-man: CE business?
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ee_emm_ecks
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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I see how it is. I can see when I'm not wanted. You're all a bunch of meanies. I am mad on the internet at you all now.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: |
Hmm. Two thoughts:
1. I think you might be well along the bellcurve in terms of how easy this was for you, even apart from your experience with N.Drop.
2. In thinking of Loderunner V. Portal, I'm thinking of this as a wider trend in gaming. I think developers seem to be consciously reducing the frustration level of games. I remember noting this a bit in Portal, also in Mario Galaxies, and before in BioShock, but the trend has been around for longer than that.
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Yeah, I've been noticing this too. I'm not sure what to think about it to be honest. Some games I wish would get on with the plot and narrative, while other times I wish they'd stop bothering with the story and get on with the gameplay. It's not often I've seen games that combine the two with great success.
And yeah, N.Drop was glitchy as all heck, so I had high hopes for Portal as a vastly more polished succesor. I guess perhaps I had more hope for this game than most other people.
I've been meaning go back to look at the advanced courses, though what I've heard about them hasn't filled me with hope. I won't say more till I play them, though.
| Quote: | So, is it patternable?
I know Pac-Man was, Ms. Pac-Man wasn't, thanks to a random number generator. |
It's indeed patternable, it's based on the original Pac-Man so the behaviours are basically the same, though tweaked a little (one of them is more aggresive than in the original, ironically making him easier to predict). I did a test to see if I could replicate the first couple minutes of gameplay and I came close with little effort. That's when I lost interest in the game.
| Quote: |
Hmm. I didn't see the controls or camera as awful. That stupid spinning kick melee attack got old, but controls and camera seemed about par for the course, and I liked the aiming mechanic, where the player had to figure out where an enemy was, rather than an omniscient "target next enemy even if its behind me". The draw distance was also a treat. |
Well it was mainly problems with the camera, and problems with the controls stemmed from the camera. To be honest, I can't remember my exact problems with it... I played it quite sometime ago and only for a couple days.
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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So I just started searching youtube on "perfect pacman" and now I have a sense of how the original could be mastered. For a while I was skeptical about claims of a perfect game (16 ghosts eaten a board, all fruit), given how short I know the power pellet time must be, but now I get it; it involves a lot of killing time in (relatively) safe ways until 3 of the ghosts start moving as a unit, and then finally the orange ghost gets into the same area.
I have to admire the work that went into that kind of thing!
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purplechair
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: |
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Oh, I see.
Anyway. My game of 2007 might be Every Extend Extra Extreme. |
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dessgeega
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Dracko wrote: | | dess, do you agree with this Pac-man: CE business? |
i think pac-man: championship edition's introspective approach to the original game is exactly the sort of thing i want to see more of. i wrote about it here.
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| purplechair wrote: | | Anyway. My game of 2007 might be Every Extend Extra Extreme. |
Ewwwww.....
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RadarScope1
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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I don't have a Wii and haven't played SMG, but I'm sure I would have put it in this list if I did. Following the rules, here are my four:
1. BioShock
2. Portal
3. Pac-Man CE
4. God of War 2
I'm surprised my list so closely mirrors the way others here have voted, but that's my list. Regardless of what's being said here about Portal, I absolutely loved it for many reasons. I will be extremely glad when we can stop talking about length and price when it comes to critically judging games. Challenge is a valid point, however, and I will give you that Portal only had a few truly challenging parts. But the rest of the game (not to mention the advanced courses, which are tough btw) outweighed that negative by a long shot for me. |
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purplechair
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I liked Portal. And Mario Galaxy. But, you know... Portal's just a series of puzzles that you solve and then you're done, and Mario just didn't challenge me. And once they were finished, they were finished.
Whereas E4 has a nice simple interface, ramps up the challenge naturally as you progress, and makes me bop around on my sofa while I play. And it looks lovely.
So basically, I'm going for that because it's such a lovely system. Y'see. |
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purplechair
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Well okay, it's not just a series of puzzles. But I didn't find the physics all that challenging (yay school) and I need more than a witty script to fall in love. |
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| purplechair wrote: | | I liked Portal. And Mario Galaxy. But, you know... Portal's just a series of puzzles that you solve and then you're done, and Mario just didn't challenge me. And once they were finished, they were finished. |
What? Mario is huge! And then once it's finished you get to do it all over again with a new character and you can pull off freaky-deaky stunts and shortcuts! |
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Cycle
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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like i'm gonna do that!
my biggest problem with galaxy is how the levels are presented. i don't know how to explain it, but it just left me... unmotivated?
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simplicio
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | purplechair wrote: | | Anyway. My game of 2007 might be Every Extend Extra Extreme. |
Ewwwww..... |
What actually turned out to be wrong with that one? Cause I love EE and EEE to death.
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dessgeega
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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it turned out to be a screensaver.
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Shapermc
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| simplicio wrote: | | What actually turned out to be wrong with that one? Cause I love EE and EEE to death. |
I thought the same thing. I was like "I really love EE and EEE, how bad can this honestly be?" Well, let's just say it's completely mindless and it seems to go on forever and ever. Not in a good way either mind you.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Cycle wrote: | like i'm gonna do that!
my biggest problem with galaxy is how the levels are presented. i don't know how to explain it, but it just left me... unmotivated? |
What do you want, apples and a bag of pears? |
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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in yer ass.
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purplechair
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | purplechair wrote: | | I liked Portal. And Mario Galaxy. But, you know... Portal's just a series of puzzles that you solve and then you're done, and Mario just didn't challenge me. And once they were finished, they were finished. |
What? Mario is huge! |
And I am awesome! |
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dessgeega
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: |
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james, i thought you hadn't played mario galaxy.
it's very imaginative, but very disappointing in a lot of ways.
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Dess I got SMG for Christmas, and I love it. I think the problems arise when people try to compare it unfavorably to other Mario games. So yeah the hub world doesn't have as much secret doo doo as Mario 64's. But! It's warmer, and feels like a little base, and it's full of life, which I like.
It's unfair to lump our hopes for the whole 3D platform game genre on one game. It doesn't break the mould, and they've chosen to omit a lot of things we liked about previous Mario games for whatever reason, but I think it's wonderfully crafted for what it is. The stage design is way better than that of Mario 64's. I mean, the freezeflame galaxy really feels like you're playing Mario 64, but minus the annoying music and with much better layout. I love that there's multiple routes up the mountain and a secret route to the summit. And I loved speedrunning Space Junk galaxy, because it gave me a new appreciation for how well that level flows. Look I even loved collecting the purple coins in Freezeflame galaxy. I've got it bad for this game. Don't get me started on the 2 player mode!
Also, something I've noticed which no-one else seems to have picked up on. You remember that magical moment in Ocarina of Time when you realised that all those little symbols you've been seeing all game were hookshot points, and it completly changed the way you saw already visited areas? That was great, but do you also remember how tiresome that mechanic had become by Twilight Princess, where you just saw a funny statue and sighed 'I guess I can't do this bit yet, until I've got whatever item activates that thing, BOO.' This mechanic is also present in Mario 64 and Sunshine to an extent, for good or for ill. Well in Galaxy they've made a conscious decision to completely remove it! I for one applaud this. If they can't implement that mechanic without it being predictable, they're right to drop it. I thought that was a good move.
For balance I also played Ratchet and Clank on the PS3 over christmas and thought it horrible. So, like, I've got standards. |
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | Dess I got SMG for Christmas, and I love it. I think the problems arise when people try to compare it unfavorably to other Mario games. So yeah the hub world doesn't have as much secret doo doo as Mario 64's. But! It's warmer, and feels like a little base, and it's full of life, which I like. |
Yeah! The environment itself doesn't QUITE feel like it's rich enough to support a community of the little dudes, but it has some of that "these folks are running around pursuing their own agenda"-- kind of like the little birds hopping on Yoshi's house in SMW, or even some of the butterfly backgrounds in DKC.
| Quote: | | Also, something I've noticed which no-one else seems to have picked up on. You remember that magical moment in Ocarina of Time when you realised that all those little symbols you've been seeing all game were hookshot points, and it completly changed the way you saw already visited areas? That was great, but do you also remember how tiresome that mechanic had become by Twilight Princess, where you just saw a funny statue and sighed 'I guess I can't do this bit yet, until I've got whatever item activates that thing, BOO.' This mechanic is also present in Mario 64 and Sunshine to an extent, for good or for ill. Well in Galaxy they've made a conscious decision to completely remove it! I for one applaud this. If they can't implement that mechanic without it being predictable, they're right to drop it. I thought that was a good move. |
I've long argued that for similar reasons, Mario has more to do with GTA's protoganists than with Zelda and Samus. In Mario and GTA, the character is roughly the same at the beginning as the end. Mario knows where to get some hats, GTA guy knows where to get some guns, but the games generally avoid leveling and/or item-based area locking. (I guess Sunshine does go against this in a very coarse grained way, don't they even have "phantom pak change buttons" that solidify once you've gotten one of the three abilities?)
(Or where do you see the "here's something you'll come back to when you have an item" in Mario 64? Anything beyond the hats? Its been a while)
On a similar note slashdot linked to Matthew Weise (I think, rather than Henry Jenkins) talking about sandbox games in response to a Chris Kohler's negative review of Assassin's Creed. I'd say Weise misses a point about sandbox games: it's not just about multiple ways of solving a given challenge, it's also about presenting a world rich enough to WANT to tool around in, which is a central point of Kohler's argument. Who was it around here saying or quoting how Mario should just be fun on a base, kinetic, walk and jump around way? I feel GTA and, say, Crackdown have that same feel (albeit with vehicles and explosives and guns) but it sounds like something Assassin's Creed might lack it.
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: | (Or where do you see the "here's something you'll come back to when you have an item" in Mario 64? Anything beyond the hats? Its been a while)
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No, just the hats. I thought metal cap and wing-cap were pretty well implemented, though! You see your first blank red block very early on, and the way you get the wing cap is clever.
That invisibility cap can go suck a dick, though. I can't remember who was complaining about galaxy having abitrary power-ups which are useless except as keys into the next area, but I would like that motherfucker look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that they any of the power-ups in galaxy are worse that the invisibility cap, that the cap is interestingly implemented in the stage design, or that they think wearing it is more fun than being able to throw fireballs or ice-skate or turn into a fucking ghost. DUDE YOU CAN TURN INTO A FUCKING GHOST.
Also I think the sparing use of the transformation power-ups in galaxy is very well-handled. And people complained about the bosses! 1.) mario games have always had recurring and kinda easy bosses. 2.) that mole you fight with the spring is dope, 3.) yeah they should have made the last boss something different, but screw it, Mario 64 didn't, 4.) GIANT ROBOT SPIDER. |
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helicopterp
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Harveyjames, I'm pretty sure that the music from the Mario 64 metal cap more than makes up for any failure in the invisibility cap.
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | That invisibility cap can go suck a dick, though.
[...]
And people complained about the bosses! 1.) mario games have always had recurring and kinda easy bosses. 2.) that mole you fight with the spring is dope, 3.) yeah they should have made the last boss something different, but screw it, Mario 64 didn't, 4.) GIANT ROBOT SPIDER. |
To be honest I don't remember the invisibility cap. Maybe that's for the better.
I liked the Galaxies bosses, from that WIld Wild West Walker to the first pirahana-plant-rex. All of them had a lot of style, and a few took me a couple of tries, but never got overwhelmingly frustrating.
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dessgeega
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: |
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sorry, the bosses in galaxies just suck. they all adhere to that FIND THE PATTERN AND REPEAT IT THREE TIMES formula that i'm so sick of. at least super mario 64's bosses are gracious enough to die when i figure out how to kill them. destroying that giant toy robot was more satisfying than any of the "real" bosses. i would have liked more of that.
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| dessgeega wrote: | | sorry, the bosses in galaxies just suck. they all adhere to that FIND THE PATTERN AND REPEAT IT THREE TIMES formula that i'm so sick of. at least super mario 64's bosses are gracious enough to die when i figure out how to kill them. destroying that giant toy robot was more satisfying than any of the "real" bosses. i would have liked more of that. |
Sorry, the bosses in galaxy were pretty good.
Each one (admittedly the duplication was unfortunate) offered a distinct kinetic experience. (Probably the lamest were the ones on the deck of the flying pirate ship.)
While the Three Times repetition is kind of a trope (though sometimes it wasn't quite 3), most of the bosses' anger modes for the final shot or two changed the feel of the battle, and were much more difficult. Sometimes the first part of the boss fight was kind of like training for the final shot(s), and I think that's a positive thing.
Not sure about the "gracious to die" vs Mario 64.
I enjoyed dismantling the giant Robot, but think I would rather see more "traditional" bosses. On the one hand the Robot had a SotC vibe, and that was great.... on the other hand, it's kind of like fighting the landscape, and I'm not sure if it would repeat that well.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dessgeega wrote: | | sorry, the bosses in galaxies just suck. they all adhere to that FIND THE PATTERN AND REPEAT IT THREE TIMES formula that i'm so sick of. at least super mario 64's bosses are gracious enough to die when i figure out how to kill them. |
Ah-ha-ha, well, King Boo doesn't, or Sandross, or Final Bowser.
I like the three times thing. It reminds me of an episode of the McCauley Culkin cartoon show 'Little Mac' I saw as a kid, where Mac sets up a video game helpline. One hint he gives out is 'jump on the turtle's head three times, and the whistle will pop out of his mouth!' I also think it's cute how the bosses get progressively angrier each time you hit them, and fighting the MagiKoopas on the pirate ships was loads of fun when I played it with my sister. Maybe I haven't got enough frame of reference because I haven't played nearly as many games as you, but they're certainly the best bosses in a Mario game, bar maybe Yoshi's Island. Although I loved pulling the legs off that Squid in Sunshine. Nintendo games have a macabre streak running through them sometimes.
Actually, Sunshine has some pretty great bosses. The battle with Bowser in the bath is nearly the genesis of Super Mario Galaxy, what with the camera fixed around a central point and all the bullet bills flying around.
I think I'm gearing up to do my annual thing of actually wanting to play Super Mario Sunshine / buying it for £5 / trading it in a week later in disgust swearing I'm never going to play it again. |
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Actually, Sunshine has some pretty great bosses. The battle with Bowser in the bath is nearly the genesis of Super Mario Galaxy, what with the camera fixed around a central point and all the bullet bills flying around. |
Yeah. Was it King Kaliante who was most like that in Galaxies?
And of curse Mario Sunshine has that lovely fight against the splitting shadow manta rays... was that a boss, or just a level? At any rate, terrific. I don't have much of an urge to go back to the game but my memories are generally positive.
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, King Kaliente was the big old lava octopus. It's clever because Kaliente means 'hot' in Spanish and Calamari is another word for squid, but it's spelt Kalimari in the Mario universe (see: Kalimari Desert). Deserts are also hot. Man, they thought of everything.
Mario Sunshine is largely annoying and not fun at all. It's full of really unfair game overs (you die if you lose a race! Mario 64 would let you lose the race and then you could just walk off and find something other star to get) and some of the environments are kind of yucky. It constantly taunts you by giving you an island in the distance, a jetpack that lets you travel through water at tremendous speed, and yet trying to reach the island results in you bonking into an invisible wall. There is actually just one moment like this in Galaxy- trying to fly to the trial galaxy planet after you get the red star.
The things they left out from Mario 64 are more glaring in Sunshine, like the way you can't enter a world and do stars out of order. Somehow you don't miss that as much in Galaxy. The sheer breadth of different levels and amazing things you do in Mario Galaxy shows up Mario Sunshine for having a marked lack of ambition. |
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't think about the Kalimari reference! Reminds me of some of the cleverness the translators of Pokemon display...
| Harveyjames wrote: | | The sheer breadth of different levels and amazing things you do in Mario Galaxy shows up Mario Sunshine for having a marked lack of ambition. |
Hmm. I was going to argue that the waterpack was where they focused their ambition. And that was ok, because it had all those modes. But really, the hover mode and squiring was it for novelty, and rocketboosts and turbospeed was just... bleh.
I guess after the (well regarded in some quarters, including mine) Luigi's Mansion people were hankering for a "real" Mario game, but the island theme predominated and was a bit too...specific? ... in a way paintings in a canonical castle and a "Galaxy" aren't. You wonder where they're going to go with the theming next.
Heh, right now may Sunshine's environs get the most play in the Mario Kart DD ending screen, at least until a Wii version comes out. I don't know why I find the "Kart ending reflects the current mainstream Mario" interesting but I do.
Rambling towards infinity, SNES Mario Kart's menu and ending ceremony always feels like an interesting middle ground between the NES and SNES proper eras, something about the fonts and use of sprites.
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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They really had their 'b' team of sprite artists working on SNES Mario Kart.
I like whoever the pixel artist is who did Link's Awakening, and appears to have done the sprites for the bosses in the otherwise terrible Yoshi's Safari! That guy has his own thing going on!
I think giving Mario a hoverpack is ultimately going to be seen as a misstep in the series.
ALSO, Calamari is actually an Italian culinary term. I wonder if the Mario series is going to be revealed as the fever dreams of a food-obsessed Italian man. |
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, didn't really recall Yoshi's Safari at all.
I thought the Sprites were kind of cute. But I was more or less out of gaming in the original SNES era, so only see Mario Kart as a retro-thing, a kind of flatland parody of Mario Kart 64-- and no matter what you say about Mario Kart's superiority for level or mechanic design, Mario 64 has a 4 player mode, and that alone is the bomb-diggity.
| Quote: | | I think giving Mario a hoverpack is ultimately going to be seen as a misstep in the series. |
Well, not giving him a hoverpack (though I know some people have groused about it taking away the purity of jumping), but building so much of a game around that. If it were given the same play as, say, the Bumblebee or Spring mushroom in Galaxies, I think it would be an absolutely positive thing.
| Quote: | | ALSO, Calamari is actually an Italian culinary term. I wonder if the Mario series is going to be revealed as the fever dreams of a food-obsessed Italian man. |
Yeah, them tasty little rubbery bits, often fried and served with some kind of tomato-y sauce to dip in... yum.
If it is just "fever dreams", then you wonder about Mario 64 where there's the dream-in-the-dream and you hear him say "Lasagna...ZZZZ...Spaghetti...."
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| kirkjerk wrote: |
If it is just "fever dreams", then you wonder about Mario 64 where there's the dream-in-the-dream and you hear him say "Lasagna...ZZZZ...Spaghetti...." |
I was trying to remember what part of the game that's in. I just remember the owl telling you you need to lay off the (stereotypical Italian foodstuff) when he's flying you around. I really like how you can go the whole game without ever knowing there's an owl hidden in that tree who will fly you around the level. A bit like how I love the way a lot of people played all the way through Majora's Mask without ever finding the Beaver Dam, or Keaton the Ghost Fox. It's a pity there isn't much stuff like that in Mario Galaxy / Sunshine. Maybe there is but I just haven't discovered it! That would be great! |
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kirkjerk
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | kirkjerk wrote: |
If it is just "fever dreams", then you wonder about Mario 64 where there's the dream-in-the-dream and you hear him say "Lasagna...ZZZZ...Spaghetti...." |
I was trying to remember what part of the game that's in. |
Part of his idle animation, innit?
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you sure it's that game? |
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: |
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yes that is his idle animation in mario 64
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Dracko
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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Let's talk about racist idle animations!
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Harveyjames
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Well there's that bit in Shaq Fu where if you leave him for long enough he starts gnawing on massive hunks of chicken and watermelon he produces from nowhere. Also in Beyond Good and Evil if you don't touch the controller for 3 minutes Jade busts out a foul mouthed rap about tits and bras, menage e trois, and sex in expensive cars. |
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