The Gamer's Quarter

[Cycle]

So first, a complaint. Why is the joker such a shitty villian in this series? Seriously, I was hoping he was as creepy as I remember from when I was a child, but he is pretty much wasted in this series, most dissapointing especially after his EPIC role in Phantasm. I mean, I guess they can't have him killing people all the time, but come on! I hope he gets more pyschotic in later seasons. Most importantly, I want him to win every now and then.

On the other hand, so many of the other villians are awesome. Mr Freeze is so eerie, especially his voice. I've found that the more TRAGIC villians who have their own agenda and don't care about batman are the best. I love tragic characters! Especially when they're insane!

Catwoman was also appropiately saucy. Well, pretty much any villian with two connected episodes are pretty good.

There have been a few dud episodes, like when Bruce loses his memory in that labor camp, and that one with the kids living in the sewers. Actually I'm going to stop talking here because I need to go to bed.

But hey, what are some good comics/cartoons/whatever that explore the joker and his relationship with batman well? The Killing Joke was pretty good but not nearly as good as I was led to believe, his role in Dark Knight Returns was pretty swell... but what else? I want more of the joker!

Oh yeah, what do people think of the Dark Knight joker? Too early to tell I guess, but some of the promo shots look kinda "hmm..."
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[Lackey]

Didn't Mask of the Phantasm come after the end of the series?
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[seryogin]

My favorite thing about the animated series was Ra's Al Ghul.

The joker works better in some of the later episodes.
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[Cycle]

I hope so!

And yes, Phantasm came after, I meant that I watched the movie recently, so yes.

Dreaming in Darkness is a very cool episode, aside from the noir-style narration which I rarely enjoy. The plot also seems to be very similar to the one used in Batman Begins, which I found interesting. Are they both based on the same issue or something?

I was going to talk more about the series but I summed up everything in my first post, really.

So hey, I'm obsessed with descents into madness. Among my favourite movies are Taxi Driver, Apocalypse Now, The Shining. What are some other good movies about this sort of thing!

I'm pretty sure I'll descent into madness one day! Should be an interesting day!
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[Harveyjames]

I remember thinking this was amazing at the time. I loved it when they did paintings for the closeups, which reminded me of Bob Clampett's The Great Piggy Bank Robbery with Daffy Duck.

The Clayface episode is incredible to look at, and I remember being gripped by the episode with the ventriloquist ! Good times!

[boojiboy7]

The best thing about the Joker is his VA. Luke Skywalker is wonderful for that role, and his piece in Yakuza was enhanced when he slipped into the joker voice and yelled MOTHERFUCKER.

I haven't sat down and watched this show in years, but I remember loving that it didn't just make Batman a joke. The Clayface episodes were really well done, and I remember one where the villains are like playing poker and shooting the shit that was also really good.

[Ashura]

So many episodes of this were animated by TMS. Seriously good stuff. This show should be in the Wonderful Animation thread, which I will resurrect when I'm back! I rewatched almost every episode of this when I picked up the DVDs, and I don't know if I agree completely on the Joker stuff.

One of the best episodes with the Joker is 'Joker's Favor', which deals with a guy having a bad day who essentially road rages on a motorist who turns out to be the Joker and the Joker merely takes his drivers license and lets him live... for a favor later on. He lets the guy go about his life for quite a few years. The man changes his name, address, but the Joker eventually comes to collect the favor. There's a lot of great stuff in this episode, and I think it was meant to introduce the Joker as well as Harley Quinn. The Joker intends to kill the guy, and I remember it was this specific episode that taught me that some characters can be irredeemable and do and will lie to you. It intrigued me as a kid that he let the guy live so long before exacting his plan.

The interesting thing about Heart of Ice is that the animated team essentially completely revamped the Mr. Freeze character from this two-bit crook character and then the comics took that and reincorporated it into their universe. Michael Ansara did the voice of Victor Fries, and is married to Barbra Eden of I Dream of Jeannie fame. The commentary for that episode is interesting, since it was done by an off-shoot of TMS founded by one of their animators I believe, and they talked about how the head of the studio airbrushed every single frame of Mr. Freeze's dome by hand, and how studios after that tried to mimic it but it never looked as good.

Also fun notes are that their palette was really limited on the original show, something like 16 colors or something. The New Batman Adventures slightly less limited. On the original show, they were never happy with the shadows on anything of Robin's that was green - they used some kind of blue color and it really didn't work. They said they wanted to go with black but weren't brave enough and would've done so now. I think some of the studios actually ignored this and colored it a dark green anyway in a few episodes.

The commentaries are actually some really cool stuff. They explain some of the advanced effects they were crazy to pull off in that time. For instance, there's an episode that introduces the Riddler and one shot is essentially a background painting of the riddler in Shadow and the only thing that's animated is like his mouth and maybe his eyes. They were told you 'couldn't do this' and they were like 'why?' and they were told 'because' or something and did things their way anyway, a lot because they didn't know better and were rookies at the time I guess. In the end they really pulled out a lot of really cool animation tricks. I think they were told you can't animate with a black shadow color or something, either... when they did this extensively.

Also, the 3D Gotham City from the beginning of Mask of the Phantasm was intended to be used on the show, I believe, to make the backgrounds easier, but it never went through.

If you have never read it, pick up 'Batman: Animated.' It's well worth the money.

Oh yeah, another fun fact is that the 360 panning shot of Terry-Batman in the beginning of Batman Beyond is a kitbashed Nightwing figure I think. A lot of the stuff in that intro is models. Like the spinning head of Old Bruce is a big maquette. (sp?)

[The Great Unwashed]

The only real Joker-centric novel I've read would be Death in the Family, which I read way after its whole vote-to-kill-a-guy controversy and actually found it pretty emotional and moving. I haven't read it again since so I don't know what I'd think now, but I definitely enjoyed it at the time, as much as you can enjoy the sight of someone being beaten to death with a tyre iron so their mother can live.

I guess there was a definite Joker-ish part of The Dark Knight Returns, and I found the concept of Joker basically becoming catatonic without the knowledge of Batman to fight fairly interesting, though if you're one of those guys who angrily stabs themselves in the eyes when they hear the name Frank Miller associated with anything other than vile invective then you should probably skip over what I just wrote.

I really loved the Batman Animated Series as a kid and now that I'm older and having seen a few more episodes, it's really aged well (much like Beast Wars has, I think). I absolutely fucking love the style and artistic direction of it all, it was so effective and is still striking after all of these years. I also really remember enjoying Mask of the Phantasm. I should probably make time to watch it again, I found it pretty emotionally involving at the time.

Emotion and Batman go hand-in-hand, you see.

Emotion emotion emotion.
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[kirkjerk]

What do you think influenced the whole gothic retrofuture look of the Batman cartoon? It's really striking and well done...was it pretty much a new thing when it came out? I mean of course your see some hints of that in the first Batman movie, but...

To answer my own question, Gattaca comes to mind, with its use of old cars and phones to get a kind of "timeless future past" look

And to refute the answer to my own question, Batman the cartoon predates Gattaca by like 5 years. Whoops!

....

To cover up my embarrassment with more embarrassment, am I the only person here who didn't think "Dark Knight Strikes Again" totally sucked, even if its big surprise twist turned out to be a bit dumb?
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[The Great Unwashed]

I fairly much liked it. I thought The Dark Knight Strikes Again was pretty neat in its way of slotting existing DC characters into this new Dystopian universe, with The Flash powering generators, and angry regenerating Robin, and such, and such. It wasn't as interesting as The Dark Knight Returns in terms of developing Batman's balls-to-the-wall character but it was still a worthwhile read, I think.
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[Harveyjames]

[kirkjerk]

[Dracko]

The creators actually termed the style of the show as Dark Deco, something they tried to stick with as much as possible.

Ra's al Ghul all the way.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[kirkjerk]

[Dracko]

I'm not sure: When was Phantom 2040 made?

P.S. Dark Knight Strikes Again is great. I'm going to extend that to anything Batman-related Miller wrote, even the Spawn cross-over. His take on the character is grandiose. I can't wait for Holy Terror, Batman!.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[sediment]

I wanted to say Phantom 2040 was '94, and by golly, I was right!

So no, not really. But soon after!
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[helicopterp]

Everyone here probably knows this, but when I was a kid I saw an interview with someone involved in the show. They claimed that it was the only cartoon that started on black paper instead of white paper. So every frame started off dark before there was even anythingn on it.
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Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one.

[Dracko]

Oh yes, I forgot about that. It worked to great effect.

Incidentally, the entire run of Phantom 2040 is up on YouTube.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[kirkjerk]

Hadn't heard about "Holy Terror, Batman!"

Al Qaeda seems a pretty appropriate scale for Batman... sometimes being the "World's Greatest Detective" and a total control freak seems not to measure up to overpowered DC scale. YMMV.

But at least he's not Aqua-Man, insert obvious and overplayed joke here. I once tried at argue for the guy, and was doing a pretty good job of it, but then I realized I was assuming he could, like, summon a wave to do Katrina like damage, and I don't think he can.
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==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com

[Harveyjames]

I hated Phantom 2040 when I was a kid. I found it really cold, and hated the art style. I used to think 'why is everyone so lanky?'

[Dracko]

Everyone knows you hate Peter Chung, Harvey. >:|
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[sediment]

that's exactly why i loved phantom 2040, mr. harvey!

wow i just realized my taste in art must seem really depressing to people that don't really know me
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[Harveyjames]

I don't hate Peter Chung, I thought the intro to Rugrats was the best thing about the show :P

[kirkjerk]

FWIW: dig the themes. Less crazy about the lank.

Was in NYC and went to the Neue Gallerie, and realized that whole Aeon Flux look seems to have its roots in Egon Schiele's, this super-early-20th century stuff:


(slightly more info here, or google it your damn self)

For that matter, this portrait also reminds me a bit of Miller's joker:


Ok, thus endeth my attempt at art-name-dropping.

EDIT: (well, not true edit, I kicked out the internet cable of my computer)
So Wikipedia points out the influence of Schiele on Chung. Just like it pointed out the Fleischer Superman influence on Batman.

Dang. Wikipedia knows all, tells all, if only I thought to look...
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==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com

[Dracko]

Animated Egon Schiele is the best thing ever.

Apparently, the Phantom 2040 game was known to be excellent.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[internisus]

The SNES game is all I know of Phantom 2040, and it was really cool back then. Doesn't hold up too well, unfortunately, but it's worth a try if you get the chance.

I'm a really big fan of TAS. I know a lot of people like it especially for the stories involving gangsters and other characters who aren't supervillains, such as Stromwell, but my favorite episodes have always been the ones that paint Batman as a tragic hero. A great example is "I Am The Night," in which Gordon is shot because Batman was late to the scene. He doubts his usefulness because the criminals he gets locked up just come back eventually, and in one especially moving scene Gordon tells Batman that he wishes he could have been a hero like him, to which Batman of course replies, "You are, Jim." It emphasizes their father-son relationship very well.

Other great episodes involve Leslie Thompkins, very effective surreal and character-developing Scarecrow hallucinations, multiple-viewpoint storytelling centering on the police force in "P.O.V.", and reform attempts by criminals like the Penguin and Harley Quinn that humanize these characters, make them much more sympathetic, and sometimes even imply that Batman is in part responsible for their returns to crime.

Oh! Here's one: "I've Got Batman in My Basement." I loved this episode as a kid. Again, Batman has a relationship with regular people, but in this case they're kids and they have all the power. That was such a delight. Oh, and "The Cape and Cowl Conspiracy" was great because of its trap scenarios.

Other great episodes: "Almost Got 'Im," "The Man Who Killed Batman," "Showdown," and anything involving Bullock.

Something remarkable about TAS is just how much those big-name recurring gangsters appear if you pay attention. Like Thorne--he's all over the series. It's like having multiple Lex Luthors who are sometimes pitted against one-another.

And let's not forget the wonderful impact of having unique music written for each individual episode! My absolute favorite example of this is "Appointment in Crime Alley," whose music has a central recurring motif that ties together Batman's escapades perfectly.

No matter what you like best in the show, you can't argue that it almost always explored mature themes with sophisticated writing and often creative scenarios. If there's another Western-made cartoon in the same league, I have yet to see it. And yes, Mask of the Phantasm is an excellent cap to the series. It's such a dark film; the sequence when Batman is trapped by the SWAT team and the final scene with Joker blowing up the World's Fair are so memorable, and the music is amazing--remember when Batman's holding the Joker and they're both so bloodied and the Joker starts laughing hysterically as the bomb goes off and the chain of explosions begins? As he's laughing, there's this incredible climactic thing that the music does. I always think of that moment especially when the movie comes up. I've still not seen Return of the Joker, however.

It's kind of too bad that TAS just slowly devolves into standard tripe, though.

Also, for another instance of incredible animation, check out the Man-Bat episode, which I think is the very first one in the DVD collection.

Final note: I've always had a crush on Harley Quinn. I think TAS was hugely influential on what styles of cartoon females appeal to me aesthetically; for instance, that WB Superman cartoon mimicked the TAS art style quite a lot, and girls on that show always looked like some simple variation on Quinn or Ivy. Oh, and you know those e-surance commercials? That pink-haired girl reminds me of these shows too. Anyway, Quinn is cute. -.-

[Dracko]

[ee_emm_ecks]

How is internisus not aware of Aeon Flux? Wait it's probably for the better, spare us the gushy aimless rant about its misunderstood greatness. Just put all that crap in a private journal and be done with it.

[internisus]

EmX, I thought you saved your nasty responses to my enthusiasm for SB.

My only exposure to Aeon Flux is from the live-action movie, which did little for me. I guess there's a reason why the franchise is mentioned so often, then?

[ee_emm_ecks]

That was me being far too generous and sanitary, even though it may seem out of place on a touchy feely venue like TGQ

Anyways, yeah, the series is all-around amazing in my experience. I need to snag it again. I wiped the drive I had it on for some odd reason.

[Harveyjames]

[Dracko]

[ee_emm_ecks]

[Swimmy]

[Dracko]

Link me up. Better still, find a playlist. Exosquad is everything Japanese giant robot anime wishes it was. I'm still going through Phantom 2040 and it's well worth it.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Swimmy]

There was a proper playlist on veoh, but it's disappeared.

Oh, here we go. It's obnoxious but it links all the google videos handily in the blog: http://www.myspace.com/exo_squad

Internisus, you should watch it too. It's one of the best shows I've ever seen, animated or not. You just kind of have to ignore the short Mars storyline with the children and the alien hobnobbery, and pretend the very last episode is fanfiction.
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"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin

[Dracko]

Cheers, man. I hope there's a Batman playlist somewhere.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Dracko]

Here's a leak of the first scene of The Dark Knight.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Cycle]

ANTICIPATION +++++++++++++++++++++
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[Dracko]

THEY STOLE THAT LAST LINE FROM ÆON FLUX!
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Cycle]

OH NOES!!!!

ANTICIPATION -----------------------------!!!
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[Dracko]

Never going to see a Christopher Nolan film ever again!
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Cycle]

official trailer by the way!

http://atasteforthetheatrical.com/deathtrap/default.htm
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[The Great Unwashed]

Mm, nice. I'm really liking the Joker's look. Looks like Ledger is going to do a neat interpretation of the character.
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[seryogin]

I remember watching Exosquad along with Wing Commander Academy back when I was eleven years old. I don't remember it being all that well-animated or interesting. Can anyone refresh my memory on why it's supposed to be great?

If anything, it reminded me of the other animated series floating around at the time, very much like an American comic book, which should explain why Dracko's enjoyment of it. For those of us that didn't much like comic books growing up and don't enjoy the tropes, it really doesn't seem to hold much of interest.
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[sediment]

Exosquad has reasonably-sized robots in an approachably dystopian future with racial and interplanetary politics. as far as children's television goes, it's pretty deep, and i think watching it and Batman when I was a tween did good things for my social consciousness.
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