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Everything I know about FPS games I learned from John Romero
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Slonie
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to come back to this post and edit it with relevant links, names, dates, and researched details, but in the grand tradition of the Internet I'm just going to spew from memory as I promised this post earlier and never delivered...Here goes!

So anyway, one of the fairly heavily-marketed aspects of Shadow Ops: Red Mercury was the "Hollywood Screenwriter" writing the plot for the game. This screenwriter was Micah Ian Wright, at least in all the pre-release PR for the game. Micah Ian Wright is an interesting dude. An abridged version of his career, from memory, would go like this:

0) Career in the Special Forces as an Army Ranger

1) Write and produce a pilot for a NickToons show that never got made (past the pilot) that woudl have been TOTALLY AWESOME (steampunky Doc-Savage-inspired pulp).

2) Create a book featuring old propaganda posters remixed into current anti-war politics. It's called "Back the Attack!". Heady stuff, especially considering he was ex-Military himself.

3) Oh wait, it turns out he was never in the Rangers. He came clean on his website and others. Big scandal.

4) Write Shadow Ops: Red Mercury. Or did he? His name is nowhere in the credits of the game (unless I missed something). The credited writers are two other guys. Pseudonyms? I don't think so, they appeared in the video documentary featured on the game DVD.

I still don't know the truth behind the Shadow Ops thing. Did he quit? Did he get canned during the scandal about his military history that was actually fictional? I don't know. I do know (from old posts on his website) that coming out with the truth was incredibly difficult as you might imagine. I also know that his show should have gotten produced, the pilot was totally rad.
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He also wrote the comic Stormwatch: Team Achilles, which DC hated so badly, they said they cancelled it at #24, but instead cut it at #23 at the last minute, frustrating writer and fans alike.

Quote:
The book debuted to controversy from the first issue, which, due to changes in DC's printing schedule, came out not in October 2002, but instead on September 13th, 2002, the one-year anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks. To compound the problem, the first issue featured a terrorist superhuman attack on the United Nations, which many readers thought was intended to comment on the 9/11 attacks themselves, and thus in poor taste.

Because Team Achilles (like all previous Stormwatch groups) was a United Nations entity, the book often dealt with realistic political details such as the U.S.'s refusal to pay its U.N. dues, political interference with the goals of the U.N. by conservative American politicians, and the U.N.'s own ineptitude and corruption. In the charged political air, the book accurately reflected the disdain that President George Bush and his administration displayed toward the United Nations.

Detractors of the comic disliked the political tone of the book. Released during a time when the American public was 88% in favour of the Afghanistan War, George W. Bush enjoyed a 65% approval rating, and 72% of the public supported the invasion of Iraq, the book took shots at conservative politics in general, "weapons of mass destruction", the Department of Homeland Security, America's paranoia about terrorism and the accompanying culture of fear, and, some felt, President Bush himself. Although the President in the Wildstorm universe was never named, some readers stated online that they felt that the mumbling, incomprehensible, racist Southern murderer depicted in the book was a clear mockery of George Bush.

Additionally, many superhero fans disliked and disbelieved the concept that 'normal' human beings could ever hope to defeat superheroes. This was notable, given that the main concern of DC Comics (WildStorm's parent company) was to revive and promote 'traditional' pure superhero comics over the darker characters pioneered by Image.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh, that comic sounds interesting. You ever read it, Dracko? Any good?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read the first arc (Three issues), but gave up since. It didn't come off as bad, just too much like a macho comic book for my blood at the time. I'll give it another go.

They do mercilessly wipe out the Shadow/Elders of/Illuminati U.N. within a couple of pages though, just to show they take shit from no-one.

If anyone's curious, send me a PM and I'll give you links to them.

EDIT: Also, it gets better.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but instead on September 13th, 2002, the one-year anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks


me math hard?

also i would like to play an fps game where you blow up the un.

actually i want a fucking fps where you're the bad guy and you get to put a rocket into tom clancy's house or something.

best of all worlds would be attacking the u.n. while tom clancy accepts an award from hugo chavez but oh dear i'm masturbating again sorry.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Minerva was really, really good guys!

And Unreal 3 hasn't learned much since Quake 3 Team Arena except how to make really awesome vehicles and not include anti-aliasing so that it constantly looks much uglier and older than it should.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I tried the UT3 demo (not Unreal 3, shaper! Unless I'm missing something) and found it very dissapointing. It's basically old school deathmatch that looks pretty nice and a few forgetable additions. This junk is dated as all heck! I can't imagine playing a game with such dated design these days.

Then again, I wasn't really expecting anything else, so yeah.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
Yeah, I tried the UT3 demo (not Unreal 3, shaper! Unless I'm missing something) and found it very dissapointing. It's basically old school deathmatch that looks pretty nice and a few forgetable additions. This junk is dated as all heck! I can't imagine playing a game with such dated design these days.

Then again, I wasn't really expecting anything else, so yeah.

Yeah, UT3 (though it does use the Unreal 3 engine, so I wasn't so far off).

Really though, the vehicles are amazing. And some of the later level design (going by single player story). Also, I've only done like 3 deathmatch missions in the single player and I've played about two dozen missions. The new warfare stuff with the nodes is pretty hectic, though offline I wish my teammates weren't such idiots. It's pretty much what I was hoping that Halo 3 would be online, only better. Offline is just an excuse to fight bots, though I figure it will unlock costumes for online and familiarize me with everything/maps.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Need help: Jedi Outcast

This is the same part I got stuck on my first play through and it's going to prevent me from finishing the game ever. There's a part right after where you go into the freezing chamber (very early on) and it's a circular room, you jump up on some parts, cross a catwalk, then make it into a room with a pool of freezing liquid. From there you can kill some stormtroopers and an officer, then go down into a large room with a camera, three turrets, and some storm troopers. I can't get past this point. There's nothing I can (seemingly) do to progress. There is one cylindrical door in the corner of said room that seems like it should open but doesn't. I've back tracked and retraced my steps multiple times but CAN'T progress from here. Any help?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last UT I played was the original, and even though 3 is only slightly different, I'm still really enjoying it. There is a pace to the games that is unlike any other, and everything works towards it - the weapon firing rate, reload time, vehicles, etc. Sometimes I just want to jump in with some bots and dive around a weird level and run something over with a tank. There are also the giant hovering robots that randomly fire out death rays, a deathmatch obstacle the 23rd century has long been advocating.

Also, Daikatana is free on GameTap until the 31st.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, I encouneted one of those robots in the demo and thought it was one of the most retarded things I've seen in my life.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryan wrote:

Also, Daikatana is free on GameTap until the 31st.


!!!!

Right, you guys are all going to do a playthrough of this game ok

After all, who is this thread named for?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames please liveblog Daikatana for the good of this thread.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guys i actually own a big box copy of daikatana
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like I dodged a bullet of some kind by never feeling the need to buy Daikatana.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Need help: Jedi Outcast

This is the same part I got stuck on my first play through and it's going to prevent me from finishing the game ever. There's a part right after where you go into the freezing chamber (very early on) and it's a circular room, you jump up on some parts, cross a catwalk, then make it into a room with a pool of freezing liquid. From there you can kill some stormtroopers and an officer, then go down into a large room with a camera, three turrets, and some storm troopers. I can't get past this point. There's nothing I can (seemingly) do to progress. There is one cylindrical door in the corner of said room that seems like it should open but doesn't. I've back tracked and retraced my steps multiple times but CAN'T progress from here. Any help?


It's been a long long time since I played it, but I think there is some shooting through windows involved here. Man, you need to get past this bit. This turns into one of my favourite games once you get the saber.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winged Assassins (1984) wrote:
Harveyjames please liveblog Daikatana for the good of this thread.


I'm too busy :(

I think it should be a community thing . Apparently there's some far-out shit hidden in the depths of that game. I especially want to know about the level which is a tower block in which every wall is destructable, although I suspect that might have been something of a Peter Molyneux claim.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Need help: Jedi Outcast

Let's see if I can remember this part, it's been a while. You come into the room with the freezing liquid on a catwalk, you kill the floating droids and the rubes in the little control room behind the windows. You walk back to where you entered the room on the catwalk, hug the wall to the right of the entrance and make your way over to the control room and shoot the explosive crate through the window which extends another catwalk which you take into the control room. Press a button or two in there and it gives you a walkway down the bottom. There's a lift in the control room as well, which takes you to a little window box overlooking the large room with the turrets as well as a button you can press to make things pop out of the floor. There's nothing of much interest in the large room apart from a few items, what you really want to do is go back to the freezing water room and take walkway the control room activated as it is the key to your progression.

At least that's how that's how I think it goes. I definitely remember a large room that had turrets in it and a place before it where I got killed because of my lead fingers holding down the strafe keys making me fall into the freezing water.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames wrote:
Winged Assassins (1984) wrote:
Harveyjames please liveblog Daikatana for the good of this thread.


I'm too busy Sad

Maybe you can get Cycle to do it instead.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daikatana is a damn glorious game. Anyone liveblogging it would be much appreciated.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have time to scratch my own ass at the moment. I had to hire some guy to do it for me.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pay is great but the conditions are appalling.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
To be honest, I encouneted one of those robots in the demo and thought it was one of the most retarded things I've seen in my life.


The 23rd century version of you won't. Ahead of its time, you see.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

so how bad is daikatana anyway?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is from the Something Awful review of the demo that came out at the time:

Quote:
JOHN ROMERO: "Alright team, I've got a fabulous idea for a game! I've been listening to what the gamers want and are looking for, and I've got some killer thoughts! This will be the best game ever created!"
ION STORM TEAM: "HOORAY!!!"
JOHN ROMERO: "First of all, we'll need to make our own engine. A superb engine, featuring advanced effects like T&L, dynamic LOD, curved surfaces and-"
POD PEOPLE: "John xyblah grawh rawwwwr!" (translated: "John, you are our bitch now!")
JOHN ROMERO: (shot by evil Pod Peoples' ray gun) "Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!"
ION STORM TEAM: "John, are you okay?"
JOHN ROMERO: (slowly getting up from the ground) "I LIKE BUGS AND FROGS."
ION STORM TEAM: "What?"
JOHN ROMERO: "'SUPERFLY JOHNSON' IS A GOOD NAME FOR A BLACK MAN."
ION STORM TEAM: "We quit."


Also:

Quote:
So did I miss anything (that I was able to observe before the game crashed)? The AI is terrible, and I routinely saw death mosquitoes fly around, get stuck in a narrow passageway and hover there for a few minutes. The shots from your sperm-blaster have a tendency to bounce off the sky(?), ricochet back, and injure you. Death crocodiles like to sometime never leave the water and attempt to injure you by running in place and making obnoxious sounds. The game music sounds like a Roland XP-50 set to the "techno" preset. Your character's sound effects were apparently lifted from the "Effeminate Cyborg" volume of CD sound effects (available at finer Target's). The only thing more numerous that the bugs which cause the game to crash is the amount of bugs that are actually in the game, attempting to kill you.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the levels after the swamp section are actually not too bad, some parts are even lots of fun!

but the swamp part was just so, SO fucking terrible. If they had just cut out that entire section, the game would have automatically done 3 million times better. Seriously.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daikatana made it to the N64. That's all I can really say on the subject.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paranoia is a pretty sweet Half-Life mod that is full of high quality content and modifications to the engine. It almost looks like a Source engine game such is the level of visual quality of the models and textures. It has a pretty epic "Hazard Course" map as well.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
the levels after the swamp section are actually not too bad, some parts are even lots of fun!

but the swamp part was just so, SO fucking terrible. If they had just cut out that entire section, the game would have automatically done 3 million times better. Seriously.


Apparently when one of your buddies dies in that game, you die. That sounds pretty annoying, especially seeing as the buddy AI is supposed to be pretty stupid. I also saw a video on youtube where Superfly Johnson exploded because his foot touched a hamburger.

EDIT: Oh wait, here it is. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=f7PDdsn9wbo


Last edited by Harveyjames on Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, the game has a shit-tonne of problems, but it still would have done 3 million times better if the first quarter of the game was cut out!

I CAN'T LEAVE WITHOUT MY BUDDY SUPERFLY
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just thinking about that. Why didn't they just make it so the buddies automatically catch up with you when ever you try to leave a level? Or, Romero's such a big Miyamoto fan, why didn't they just make them like Epona so they just magically appear from behind you no matter where you call them from? Dumbasses.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes there were lots of odd design choices. it was a real mess. you can see glimpes of genius here and there, but yeah.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, someone should do a liveblog of it.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how about YOU, harveyjams
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about you go whap-a-dang?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

guys last night in best buy (i am looking for a new keyboard and like to clack before i buy but i'm just getting a natural $19.95 joint anyway cause i like the bend and wireless sucks sometimes but anyway) and i saw an fps that had you as a gubmint soldier shooting at al qaeda dudes in front of someone's suburban lawn. looks really 1995. any ideas?

it's new obviously but man invasion usa without a sense of humor sounds like no fun carnivale.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no idea!

so i played through deus ex, playing through bloodlines right now. was thinking of doing thief 3 next, but think i'll do stalker instead. how is it improved since the original release? lots, i hope!

not sure how much longer i'll play bloodlines. this game is more of a mess than i remember. it's still fun, but man, the missions become boring really quickly. running around downtown is still fun, though! plus the game is so patched that i havent bumped into any bugs this time. but yeah... no amount of patching will fix the mission design!

i feel like i should be playing other games, like finished my copies of planescape: torment and the last express, but i dunno, i just like shooting stuff and dont feel like playing anything that doesnt involve that. my favourite type of game is certainly FPS games with a large dose of adventure/rpg.

i'm also thinking of plugging through bioshock again when the new patch comes out, but i don't know.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhex, is that the game where you fist-fight Saddam and Osama? Because, I don't know its title either.

If you want disgusting rhetoric, you can always play the new Soldier of Fortune. Or if you want a brainless fascist wet dream, Urban Chaos: Riot Response.

Hey, who here played Zero Tolerance? Much like the Marathon series (dhex, play them if you haven't already), it's been made publically available, along with its unfinished sequel.

P.S. Winged Assassin, I am going to give that mod a look. It looks graphically superior considering it's a Half-Life mod and seems like a viable alternative to S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no i believe you don't actually fistfight anyone, it's more invasion usa style madrassas from canada or something like that. i have no idea i was in a hurry at the time, sadly. i'm going to go looking later today and maybe i'll buy the witcher maybe i dunno. (i can't buy crysis or cod cause i figure i'm getting those as gifts for xmas from the wife)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
Hey, who here played Zero Tolerance? Much like the Marathon series (dhex, play them if you haven't already), it's been made publically available, along with its unfinished sequel.

I still own Zero Tolerance in cart form. I'd dig it out of the closet to relive it but I really can't be arsed. Framerate was terrible anyway. It was much better than that Blood Shot game even though that had a bigger window and two player split screen, no linking consoles required there. And it was a damn sight better looking that Beyond Zero Tolerance which looked like some fucking CGA game. Terrible palette choices there.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Zero Tolerance wasn't too hot, but it was about the best you had when it came to Mega Drive FPS games.

I wonder if I should reveal that I've only played 20 minutes of half-life 2.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle, you should be ashamed of yourself.
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"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Super Magic Drive

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As punishment he must live blog Daikatana.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely Daikatana is something which must be experienced first-hand!
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
the meteor kid


Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be the first to admit I'd just be playing it wishing I had the expert wit, guidance and insight of someone like Cycle to help me through.
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, that Paranoia mod was pretty fantastic. Shame about the rock music and lack of ammo, though. It's worth the playthrough, I'd say.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Super Magic Drive

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle, in a thread about adventurin' wrote:
This month has a flashback on Blood.

Ooh, I'll have to get in on that as I quite like Blood despite it frequently being completely fucking annoying and bullshit.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Blood is awesome!
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Last edited by Cycle on Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Super Magic Drive

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's awesome, but then you get to those bastard severed hands, and all the status-effecting spiders. Oh, and those fucking gillbeasts. Fuck those goddamn bastards, they are cunts. They made me hate aquatic enemies for life and I really used to like aquatic enemies.

Still, the game is saved because it's not Blood II.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should play Blood again, I don't think I played it much past the first episode, but yeah, it certainly was a pain in the ass at times. On the other hand, it has so, SO much awesome stuff that makes up for it.

Which reminds me, I finished the first episode of ROTT! I enjoyed it, but I really hope someone uses the source to make a map and checkpoint function. A map, because they can be huge and confusing (and would look great on the DS bottom screen) and checkpoints (like, say, after grabbing a key) because the levels could take so long and I'd always forget to save. Plus, what with the 1up, weapon and MORE system, it's obvious the game should be played without saving/loading (or perhaps just a nod to WOLF 3D and it's lives and score systems), but it's just too much of a pain in the ass without checkpoints of any kind.

Also, the game goes way downhill on the first level on the second episode, because what the fuck, we get these super strong juggernaut guys who take forever to kill, plus they keep throwing grenades at you that kill you in like two hits. It's ridiculous!

Defend THAT, rero.




Oh, and yeah, Blood II, what the hell was that?

I'll tell you what it was.

Shit.


EDIT: Actually, I'm pretty sure I finished Blood, but I had to use lots of cheats by the end of it. Still was tonnes of fun!
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