The Gamer's Quarter

[kirkjerk]

This is a highly charming game.

I love the "P2 Shotgun Mode"... while it's not perfect in practice (P2 has to deal with the changing camera angle, and the cursor might distract P1) it's a brilliant idea, and very well done. Summary for those who don't know:

Both P1 and P2's Wiimote can act in pointermode w/ a crosshair that can fire "star bits" at enemies, stunning most minor enemies. Plus the same cursor can gather the Bits from on screen. So it's great because A. it lets a spectator be a little more than a spectator, B. but it's not really needed, so solo players aren't screwed, C. by letting P2 gather the ammo, they don't have to nag P1 to run Mario into it D. Most enemies that are stunnable/destroyable this way yield 3 or so Bits, so it encourages people to go ahead and use it.

I'm also grooving on how much retro music is in this game, it's a real treat for long term fans of the series. Most notably for me, the "Underworld" theme from SMB and the Bowser level music from Mario 64. I guess there's a downside, that maybe it's not making enough original music, but maybe that fear is unfounded.

The core "Little Prince Mario" works well. It's interesting to think about it in the context of a post-Wario Ware world; I think the isolated worlds encourage a bit of minigame type thinking, all within the context of the same core phsycis model, and that's some of the real strength of this game.

Sometimes I worry that the game is "too easy", but then I'm wondering why I would worry about that. Mario is no longer the series to give you a hard time. Like that one interview said, it's there to give you a lovely experience.
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[Harveyjames]

What's the consenus on this game? People are kind of talking about it like they're taking it for granted now. Sort of as if it's not a game that needed to exist, if you catch my drift.

[helicopterp]

I take it for idon'thaveitbecausetargetdidnothavewiissoiboughtanxboxinstead

but i'm sure it's darling


and i don't mean that in a sarcastic or bad way
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[Cycle]

It's not out here yet.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to get it the day it comes out, because I kinda want a reason to have a Wii again.
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[dessgeega]

i posted some of my thoughts on super mario galaxy in this thread.

on the one hand it's a step up from super mario sunshine because the premise (floating platforms and planetoids in space) allows exactly that kind of abstract videogame platforming that's so important to the super mario series, and the game does a lot with the fact that gravity is no longer fixed. it's probably the most 3d platformer ever developed. (and i like the way the game's setpiece-to-setpiece design allows for straight 2d platforming to be worked into the mix too.)

on the other hand, a lot of it's filler. the hub world is just a series of doors, in contrast to mario 64's castle, which connects all the stages (and many secrets) in a logical way. the new "princess" character doesn't seem to exist for any reason, since peach is still absent and must still be rescued. and there's a lot of text (more towards the beginning), either to explain mechanics that the player should be able to figure by playing or to fill in the backstory (which is the same backstory as every other super mario game).

(bosses are also repeated, and they're not particularly interesting the first time around.)

the spin attack works surprisingly well. i assume the developers chose to give mario a non-directional attack because the perspective of the game varies so much. picking up trinkets with the pointer is also better than i expected, mostly because it gives the player something to do during the gorgeous flying scenes when mario is out of her control.

(oh, and swimming isn't very good. the swimming stages tend to be the least interesting, too, because they're based around large, open areas rather than flying from setpiece to setpiece.)

i feel that the game gets respectably difficult towards the end. and i appreciate that mario's health has been trimmed to three hits (and coins made rarer), making for that much tighter a game. they also added checkpoints to minimize backtracking, which they can really only do because the game is much more linear than previous 3d marios. that makes it a bit closer to the original super mario bros., which is definitely a good thing.
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[Harveyjames]

I want it

[Scratchmonkey]

It's pretty wonderful. The hub world is indeed completely forgettable; however, the level design is generally fantastic and the combination of that with a revamped Mario move set and a pretty good camera system means that it's great fun to just run around like a maniac and try and pull off various acrobatic maneuvers for the sheer joy of it all.

To make an inane historical comparision, I'd say that this is Super Mario World to 64's Super Mario Bros.

[Harveyjames]

But Super Mario 64 is more exploration-based and this is more challenge-based, right? So that comparison doesn't really work.

[kirkjerk]

[DaleNixon]

Once you get about 70 stars (the linear way) the game starts to get VERY respectable in the difficulty department.
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[kirkjerk]

[Harveyjames]

[kirkjerk]

[kirkjerk]

And the more I think about it, Dess is right; princess Rosalina or whatever the hell her name is is pretty gratuitous. I like that she looks like "Emo Princess". Also her one line of dialog when she's starting to read her damn storybook (well done story, actually, though I'm not sure how it ties into everything) makes her sound like she's 45 yr old deep alto.

Nintendo does that sometimes. one off characters who don't seem destined for the "stable". Like that Dicehead Toad in Mario Party 3, who was immediately replaced by someone even more unforgettable.

I guess villains might have more staying power.

EDIT: another thing that makes me wonder-- I know I'm not playing Mario for the narrative structure, but it's kind of weird how the same band of mushroom people explorers and their little space ship keep showing up on all the different Galaxies. (It took me a bit to realize I was seeing the same ship and not different ones each time.) It's creeping me out, Mario is not just flying through space, but apparently looping through time.

And as long as I'm beeing grumpy geek, I'm a little annoyed at a few chunks of floating space junk constituting a "galaxy" and not a solar system or planetoid or whatever.

Still,I find this game insanely compelling. The way it doles out new places to go see and lightly challenges without being too cruel about it is addictive as all get out.
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[Harveyjames]

[Scratchmonkey]

[kirkjerk]

[kirkjerk]

That bit about leveling up makes me wonder... is there any game with a reverse levelup? Where you start out badass, and then have to cope with fewer and fewer powers, until at the end you're a mere mortal, and maybe have to cope with a problem in a human way?

If not, why not?

(First GC Metroid had just a hint of that, but the let down was quick, and then the grind was the build back up. A game like this might help explain that old cliche of always resetting, powerup wise.)
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[extrabastardformula]

In 2003 there was a few 2d Resident Evil knockoffs. One of them started you with all of the ammo that's in the game and when it's gone it's gone. I'm not sure if that's what you mean.
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[Cycle]

[Harveyjames]

[dessgeega]

[kirkjerk]

good analysis, Dess.

Why linear, though? I kind of like the flexibility. Plus I can show off any level in particular....
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[Lackey]

I want to be interested in galaxy but mario is so much of a brand now that I find it kind of off-putting.
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[dessgeega]

[Harveyjames]

[dark steve]

ask them what?
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[kirkjerk]

[Cycle]

[dessgeega]

i'm not talking about marathon
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[Harveyjames]

[Lackey]

A brand can be art, but it doesn't make the collection of signs without referents that the franchise has become any less awkward. Everything from question blocks to the character designs in mario was originally functional and invented for a specific purpose but these things have become entrenched symbols without meaning.

It's icky in the way that every Disney character living together in some kind of weird metaverse at Disneyland is.

I think Mario going to the Mario Bahamas in a Mario DC-10 in Mario Sunshine is what put me over the edge.
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[kirkjerk]

I always wonder if there's some group of fandom trying to put every frickin' Mario game into a consistent world. (At least SMB2 hands over the "it's all a dream" interpretation from the outset, or rather the ending.) (Oops forgot my SPOILER warning)

Seeing Peach's castle get taken away (in a pretty cool scene, actually) reminds me of how odd it is that its environment always changes-- from the spartan surroundings, to the almost ret-connable cameo in Mario Kart 64, to Mario Galaxies where you see the whole damn Toad town.

It's fun (if ultimately silly and pointless) to think about an effort to shoe-horn a 2D game's universe (like, say, Metroid) into a (very skinny, apparently) subset of a larger 3D space.

Kind of like that one art piece with the Pac-Man ghost gazing "transdimensionally" into our world by virtue of not having his eyes centered and not in one of the 4 usual directions.
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[kuzdu]

I've always been of the opinion that the world of Mario was really inspired placeholder art. Bizarre and meaningless so that ultimately it wouldn't distract from the gameplay, it would just disappear.

Unfortunately along the way someone decided that Mario should have a mythology. This is what really puts me off of Sunshine and Galaxy. Unless the self-satire is so subtle that I've completely missed it.

[Ethoscapade]

[dessgeega]

i've spent quite a bit of time and effort qualifying my affection for paper mario, thank you very much.

i'm planning on replaying the thousand year door at some point, too.
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[kirkjerk]

I didn't do any of the Mario RPGs, because I don't like RPGs. But I kind of interested in the idea of the Marioverse. Tell me how does Galaxy and Sunshine make it a mythology? I understand the "Mario Vacation" thing was a bit forced, but I wouldn't have called it mythology.

I think Mario 64 was amazing in its opportunity to do the 3D versions of the 2D critters, and in general did a pretty good job of it. Few series has so much recognizable raw material to work with.
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[Lackey]

[Harveyjames]

[kirkjerk]

[Lackey]

[Harveyjames]

[Lackey]

I thought Mario RPG was pretty cool with that when I watched my friend play it...that was years ago though I don't remember the specifics.
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[kuzdu]

I guess 'mythology' was too strong a word. I just mean that someone seems to feel that 'rescue the princess' isn't a good enough exposition anymore, so now you have these long sequences explaining the gravity of Mario's situation. The Mario RPGs succeed because they make light of the ridiculousness of Mario even having a situation.

I suppose I miss the weirdness without explanation of the earlier games. Anyone remember exiting a level through a bird's mouth? Haven't been getting much of that since Mario 64.

[FortNinety]

Game of the fucking year. In my book, at least.

[Slonie]

I'm 3 (okay, 4, I forgot to count that first one you get) stars in. Good times so far! Why oh why did Mario have to open his yap on the Wii menu though...

(still: I had to stop reading the thread on SB about this game prior to playing it, people just don't like games anymore I think)
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-Slonie

[kirkjerk]

[kirkjerk]

Finished this last night, to 60 star ending at least.

The ending came up more suddenly than I was for some reason expecting. When I had that big count down of stars in the center court, I didn't think that was just for the final level, which wouldn't have been much harder than other levels if they had put the checkpoint at the begining of the fire tunnel rather than a bit before that.

I guess I had trouble believing that they put 60 extra stars just in the levels I've already unlocked!

A lot of those seem to be purple coin levels, which are a pile of meh.

Though it's funny, when you come back to the main map level after the ending (and didn't you see the place shattered in the big finale??) the Emo Princess talks about how doing more stars after winning tells you what kind of person you are.... which made me feel almost guilty once I figured I wasn't too inclined to hunt down all the stars, but then I remembered, a perfectly legitimate answer to "what kind of person you are" is "someone who doesn't have an abundance of spare time for a challenge for its own sake with little promise of seeing a lot of 'novel interaction'"

SPOILERS, minor

One of the themes of the ending is how people are made out of star stuff. A casual person might not realize this is an idea that's more or less true outside of the game universe as well...

To whit:

Then I will tell you a great secret, Captain, perhaps the greatest of all time. The molecules of your body are the same molecules that make up this station, and the nebula outside-- that burn inside the stars themselves. We are starstuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out.
-Delenn, Babylon 5

All the molecules in your body were formed inside stars. We are the future of ancient stars.
-The 1997 Nobel Conference.

People and stars are made of the same stuff.
-Bill Nye the Science Guy
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[Cycle]

so i bought this game and i prayed to A CERTAIN FORCE that it wouldn't dissapoint me like the last 23 games I've bought.

It was really bugging me at first because it played differently to 64 and there are some niggles here and there, but i've pretty much forgotten about them now that i've gotten used to all the mechanics and now i think this game is totally awesome. yay! no dissapointment!
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[helicopterp]

Kirkjerk, don't forget that Moby song!
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