The Gamer's Quarter

silentmatt · Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: So no talk about the Creed?

I cannot imagine I was the only one here to get excited about and pre-order Assassin's Creed. So, anyone else get hold of a copy yet? What are your thoughts?

I picked up my copy yesterday and played for about 5 hours last night (getting to the end of the 3rd chapter). Initial thoughts:

Overall, I'm pretty much loving the game but it is really weird. The game feels like a bizarre mash-up between a badass Spiderman game done right (with the building scaling/the saving of citizens), a 3-d Zelda (with the horse riding and the encouragement of exploration), GTA:SA (with the "gangs" aspect of having your "turf") and Shadow of the Colossus (with each section of the game leading up to a huge fight and the beautiful visuals.. as well as the horse riding, again).

As far as gameplay style goes, I'm definitely taking it slow. Each mission I go in, explore a bit by myself and look for some of the hidden flags. Then I go and find the lookouts to fill in the map, which leads me to start saving the citizens/interrogations/etc. I finish all of the optional missions in each memory before making the final assassination and moving on.

The point of the game is, for me, to take in the sights and the story. For instance, for every piece of knowledge you get from the optional missions about your kill, you can go into your inventory you see both the overview of what you found and an "attachment", whether it be a document, an image, whatever. Even in the modern day settings, I love the fact that you can get on the computer and check the girl's e-mail. There are so many awesome little touches that immerse you in the story. And this isn't saying anything about how gorgeous the graphics are (especially the intricate details in the architecture).

As far as the combat system goes, I actually love it. Assassin's are not supposed to be like Kratos or Conan - they work silently and from the shadows. I found that the combat system in AC emphasizes that - if you get into a large 8 on 1 fight (which tends to happen fairly often), you will be better off running away and hiding... BUT, if you want to, it is completely possible to overtake the 8 guys on your own. All it takes is good counter skills, which also emphasizes the difference between an assassin and a generic military soldier.

But yeah, problems:
-I've had my system freeze up about 4 or 5 times on me since starting the game. It always seems to happen during loading sequences (where I can still move Altair around but the next area never loads... and when I click "Quit Game" the PS3 has to hard reset to get back to the XMB).
-I wish there was an interact button to just talk to people. I guess that just isn't how Altair rolls but it would make me more interested in all of the people around the character if he could actually speak to them.
-There are some pop-up issues... but I haven't found it that big of a nuisance at all.
-Too much of the dialogue is rehashed (ESPECIALLY the saved civilians thanks messages)

I can see how people can complain about the repetition.. but I don't think it is a really valid argument. It is like saying "Shadow of the Colossus sucked because all you did was kill the colossi over and over again" or that "Super Mario Bros. sucks because you just keep going to the right". Yeah, you'll do the same variations of tasks in each place... but that is the same with most games. The main difference is most games don't let you be a badass assassin with hidden blades and solid controls, placed in an utterly beautiful environment.
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"Jadis, si je me souviens bien, ma vie était un festin où s'ouvraient tous les coeurs, où tous les vins coulaient."

sediment · Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject:

nice to hear something positive about the game. pretty much all i've seen for it so far is people pooh-pooing jade raymond for (basically) being a cute woman in game development.

interesting crash issues, too... have you found a way to make them happen, every time?
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

When I heard that enemies attack you one at a time, could be killed in a crowd without anyone noticing by going into "low profile" mode, and that they stripped the game of its religious and political context so far as to call monks "scholars" and have Altair hold anti-religious sentiment, I pretty much said UbiSoft can fuck off and I'll get it bargain priced if that.

The story sounds expertly retarded too.

When was the last time they made a genuinely good game anyway? Sands of Time and... what else?
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The Great Unwashed · Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject:

I'm really concerned about this game. It's not out till Nov. 21st here anyway (thanks, Australia!) but all I'm reading leads me to believe it's going to be another disappointment on the scale of Splinter Cell: Double Agent, and I don't want to waste $110 AUD on that.
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SuperWes · Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:

I like it, but it's pretty much Spiderman 2: The movie: The Game all over again. It's insanely fun to control, beautiful to look at, and has an amazing sense of scale, but they kind of slacked on the "fun things to do" part of videogames and the game basically consists of navigating from inconsequential mission to inconsequential mission, collecting trinkets that "reward" you with pointless story sequences.

Still, I like how it controls well enough that I'm sure I'll play through it to the end and might even try to collect all the little bullshit. I'm easy to please.

-Wes
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Yeah, the controls sound very progressive and a joy to toy with, but it doesn't sound like they did much with them at all.

So, is it true about the practically secular censorship when it comes to religion or politics? I was hoping they'd make the effort to use the setting or at the least make it credible historically.
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dhex · Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2007 11:00 pm Post subject:

dude they're still making a game about a heretical islamic sect. if they were going to be historically accurate it would be them attacking various islamic leaders, as there were only a handful of assassinations of christians the whole time. the ismalis have what is known as a colorful history, though explaining why they're killing religious leader xyz would basically make no fucking sense without about two hours of background.

it'd be like an action rpg where you're a huguenot.

you really do expect just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much from games than is realistic. that is a laundry list for soiled disappointment that will be ready on tuesday. at 7 pm.
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

They needn't be accurate, just, you know, write credible historical fiction.

I've heard exceedingly bad things about the depiction of religion in such a context (i.e. next to non-existent when not pathetically modern), and that unsettles me more than hearing about shit A.I., poor sub-missions and characters repeating the same lines over and over again.
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dhex · Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:31 am Post subject:

yeah but this isn't some run o' the mill dead religion you can mine for ideas; it's not only a living tradition (albeit greatly changed) but also a part of a much larger, ongoing conflict. of course they don't want to get balls deep in some crazy theological-historical dickfight; they're making games, not social statements. imagine if they'd actually left the religious aspects in some historical context (even without the historical background required to understand it) - it would make the mohammed cartoons look like cartoons.

their use of religion may be incidental, or occluded, but so long as it's not ridiculously exploitive i think that's a reasonable stance. would i rather have an insane hashishim simulator? well fuck yes, but i am a small market niche in a sea of more pressing demands.

we'll see how the pc version is in a month or two.
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aderack · . Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco

Talk about educational; I learned about these guys from a 1963 episode of Doctor Who, including the word derivations in both directions. Yeah, they talked about hashish (and quasi-mystical Islamic sects) in a children's TV show. It's like Tintin or Uncle Scrooge all over again.
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

dhex, I don't mind the sci-fi or genetic memory facet of the story. I don't mind the assassination. But from what I hear, there's so very little desire to contextualise the historical setting with even the most basic of religious notions, let alone social ones, that I have to wonder what the fuck the point was of recreating these cities. And as for it still dealing with contemporarily relevant religions, sure, but it's dealing with particular extremes which have in themselves died out.

Besides, I hear the endgame plays out with supernatural bullshit and I can only sigh. UbiSoft really need to get other people to write stories for them more often. They're typically French and shit at it otherwise.
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dhex · Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject:

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

So, I should read The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, then?
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Cossix · . Joined: 14 Nov 2007 Posts: 87

I want to play this game just to fuck around with the context sensitive controls. I'm not so excited about the game itself, especially not the supposed boss rush at the end of the game (This isn't Mega Man, Ubisoft).

dhex · Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject:

boojiboy7 · Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject:

So, hey, I played this this weekend a bit. It was a sort of odd situation, as I had my 360 hooked up to a monitor over an HDMI to DVI cable and as such had no sound. I had a general idea of the story, but yeah, there was a good amount of talking in there and I had no clue what any of it was. So the historical accuracy thing, yeah, no clue how well they do it, though I am inclined to say that they don't.

I pretty much agree with dhex about this being a good thing.

It was a lot of fun to play, actually. The whole tech thing adds this weird atmosphere to the whole game. For instance, in the training level, you are just training against literally faceless people. It was a really scary effect for me when I noticed it. The training dummies just act like normal people, but have no faces, and exist in this blank white space. It is a weird tutorial.

When I got to the game proper, it was pretty fun. Jumping and climbing are as enjoyable as I thought they would be, and I enjoy getting to know environments in games in really detailed ways like this game seems to encourage. It reminds me a lot of Crackdown in this, only less about mario platform jumping and more about climbing around.

I actuually think I might be picking this up. My wallet cries.

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Oh yeah, did I also mention that Altaïr is a jerk?
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The Great Unwashed · Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject:

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

I concur.
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

Arsehole Physics.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

That's hysterical!

silentmatt · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:51 am Post subject:

Alright, I didn't want to post here again til I had finished the game. So yeah, I have now finished the game (although I have only collected about half the flags or found about half of the hidden Templar knights). And, truth be told, my initial opinions still stand. I really love the game (although I have since moved on to Uncharted, I'll go back to continue to explore AC afterwards, most likely).

The story, while obviously not "true history", was really interesting and I found myself looking forward to revisiting the modern "lab" to find out more hints about what was going on in the larger context. I don't think it is fair to bash the game for not being "religious" enough. Yes the word 'monk' was replaced with 'scholar' but the story still revolves around the Crusades, religious beliefs and faith - in both the Christian sense as well as the Hashashin. Each memory has to do with a particular target who is doing something of interest - for instance, one is about a (presumably) deranged doctor who takes in healthy peasants and then experiments upon them. History shows that this kind of thing did happen and to view it first-hand is pretty damn welcome.

To go back to Dracko's first post:
-regarding enemies attacking one at a time: It might sound lame but, in actual gameplay, I think it works really well. It isn't like you are surrounded and forced to go through a Mortal Kombat style one on one battle til you defeat all the guards. One will attack and when you defend his blow, another will come at you from behind. It is really fluid and really based upon counterattacks - which I found to be a really refreshing change.
-"low profile" mode is not that powerful. As you advance in the game, guards will become suspicious of you automatically (as they hear rumors of the "assassin with the white hood"), so will notice you even if you are in low profile mode. As well, if anyone sees a low profile kill, they will still run to the guards. It is just less likely since the movement is more stealthy.
-Altair may hold an anti-religious sentiment but that also applies to his own beliefs. He is kind of a jerk in many respects. I don't know if that is enough of a complaint to really warrant discounting the game though.

As far as the presentation of religious is concerned, I don't think it is depicted horribly. Each target you kill defends their position and their actions. It isn't like "dude, religious is bad - srsly".

The tech aspect of the game... Personally, I loved it. Even the manual is presented in a "e-mail attachment" sort of way, such that there are edits and comments littered through it by characters in the game. They even justify why the machine is controlled by "videogame type controllers". It seems that the UbiSoft team really wanted to make as comprehensive as a whole as possible. In my opinion, they pretty much succeeded.
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PSN: Twitch_City ||| Wii: 8083 5371 5767 6700
"Jadis, si je me souviens bien, ma vie était un festin où s'ouvraient tous les coeurs, où tous les vins coulaient."

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

My complaint isn't that religion is depicted horribly. My complaint is that it's depicted limply and rife with the sort of secular rhetoric bullshit so prevalent in modern French-made media. A disclaimer doesn't add to the credibility either. It's a total, abhorrent waste and just proves to me that UbiSoft haven't any of the maturity they're so often thought of having.

Altair shouldn't have anti-religious beliefs if he's a member of the Hashashin. That a rare few people may have been areligiously minded back in those days, I'm willing to concede. That a member of a religious assassin order is, is just beyond idiotic.

Your comment on the 'low profile' mode doesn't defend it, incidentally. That you have to wait for guards to be scripted later on the tale, because apparently everyone is dense and takes a long while to catch on when some guy is advertising his murder spree is laughable.

Quite frankly, I've seen and played enough of this to see that it's a criminally underused tech demo. It's a good running simulator, and that's about it. UbiSoft really don't deserve anyone's money. They've been spitting in the faces of their audience all too long.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

dhex · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:55 am Post subject:

dracko, you may wish to read up on the ismaelis. you will be considerably surprised at the diversity of beliefs expressed depending on who was in charge.

bernard lewis is a good short readable history to start. if you dig that pick up the secret order of the assassins by hodgkins. (hogsons? i can't remember his name but i'm sure amazon has it available)

edit: oh and anyway, the main reason you couldn't make a historical simulator, outside of the desire to avoid being murdered if you lived in europe, is because for most of the sect's active history any assassin's sent out died while discharging their duties. not all, and things changed after they were forced out of iran, but by and large it was a commitment.
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silentmatt · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject:

sediment · Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:26 am Post subject:

Not to completely sidestep the discourse related to the meat and bone of the game itself...

but does Altair just passively push people around or is that something you have to actively do? If it's passive, wow, is he ever the jerkiest jerk in an action game, ever.
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

I think he does it automatically, which is what makes it so hilarious.

SJ · . Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 61 Location: swamp

ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

I had a weird moment where my horse went from black to white, and then back to black. Huh.
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kuzdu · Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:14 pm Post subject:

Yeah, the game in general is pretty glitchy, even on the 360.

Toto · 4th Man Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 122

I agree with everything said here, but I still take exception to the sheer amount of collectables in Assasins Creed. It reeks of a laziness that is just awful, because someone has thought to themselves that putting several different kinds of flag in the game was a good idea. As such, I think it's insulting. I mean, not even some extra assasination missions? Just flags? An assassin doesn't go around like an obsessive compulsive oddball looking for flags...

(one thing I do is walk through the crowd, because Assasins Don't Run).

Cossix · . Joined: 14 Nov 2007 Posts: 87

One of the developers for Creed said the flags were added at the last second because a lot of focus testers were complaining about a lack of collectables. Apparently a lot of the team objected but marketing I think it was really really wanted them in badly.

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

People want collectibles?
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SuperWes · Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:11 pm Post subject:

Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

Toto · 4th Man Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 122

SuperWes · Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:03 am Post subject:

The thing is though, 90% of Assassin's Creed is collecting flags in some metaphorical sense. Some are actual flags, some are lookout points, some are villagers that need saved, some are evidence against some random evil dude. For me, the flags are a relief because I don't have to go through any bullshit when I collect it. I just grab it and go.

The "flag" I hate collecting most is the "save a villager" flag. Every time you do so you're forced to listen to one of four different thank-you scenes that are unskippable and beyond irritating.

-Wes
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silentmatt · Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject:

Yeah, that is one of the biggest downfalls of the game in my opinion as well. And each of the four are just as bad. I can't imagine how the voice acting for those villagers ever got approved.

I do kind of like the flags/templars as well. Yes, they are pointless (I don't think the game gives you anything, ever, for collecting them... but I could be wrong about that) but I think it adds to the game in that, whenever you are running anywhere, you are constantly on the look-out for them. And then, when you slightly glance one at some crazy far place, you have to figure out how you are going to get there - which is something you might not have done otherwise.

I doubt I will try and collect all of them (I think I found about 50% of them during my play through) but they are nice little incentives for exploring every nook of the cities.

As well, even the manual mentions how, in general, lame they are. I quote: "Picking up flags and helping old ladies! I thought Desmond's ancestor was an assassin, not some flag-stealing Robin Hood. I suppose that performing these activities helps our subject synchronize with his ancestor and we will have to endure it, but really, Miss Stillman! The coma is starting to look like a better and better option."

It is touches like that which make the game for me, really.
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PSN: Twitch_City ||| Wii: 8083 5371 5767 6700
"Jadis, si je me souviens bien, ma vie était un festin où s'ouvraient tous les coeurs, où tous les vins coulaient."

bleak · . Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 258

Just popping in here to say that collecting all the literal flags feels pretty pointless and the other stuff that you have to collect feels much better. Also freerunning is totally badass. As are the combat counters with each weapon! As is assassinating motherfuckers with the little stealth blade. So much great stuff here guys.
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daphaknee · Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:54 am Post subject:

oh yeah so i was at target buying master of illusion and i walked by assassins creed and i said to myself "what is that game anyway"

and this ten foot fifteen year old that worked at target came up to me studdering with his high pitched voice

"its a mythology game, theres... theres.... mythology, i dont want to spoil it for you but its about mythology yeah, and well! its over 10 hours ill tell you that much, i played it for 12 and i still wasnt done, and well, i havent beaten it until last night... its a mythology game.."

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

Are you sure that wasn't a TV displaying an INTERVIEW WITH JADE RAYMOND OH BURN

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

select button
mythology game
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bleak · . Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Posts: 258

It is a pretty savage burn, that.

Assassin's Creed is a mythology game in much the same way Dead Rising is a mall simulator or Metal Gear Solid 3 is a Cold War game.

I guess it's an accurate assessment of the contents of the game but that's not where the game's focus lies.

That the game is so non-secular even in spite of the entire game's plot and subplot and subsubplo really makes it hard for me to take the game as seriously as I could. I guess that's okay though, since it's fun as shit to just play through and mess around with. The game definitely paved the way for more creative sandboxing and context sensitive controls I think, though, which is definitely a good thing.
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