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Everything I know about FPS games I learned from John Romero
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
Quote:
Z.A.R.


Just looked up this game and don't think I've heard of it, more info plz.

It was made by the Russians, had levels that were entirely outdoors and had destructible voxel landscapes before the Delta Force games had them. It could have used more variation in the missions, it was mostly kill every robot fool you see but there were missions where you had to defend certain objects and I think some convoys but I could be thinking of Terra Nova there. Z.A.R. is nothing like Terra Nova btw. It also had LAN support for multiplayer that I never played. It's a pretty average game but I thought it was fun but then again I used to think Redneck Rampage was pretty fun. There's a demo out somewhere, on the internet, if you can find it. Or you could just warezorz a copy, I don't particularly care.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't have time to write a real post but posting in support of voxels. One day, voxels will rise up and take their rightful place as the 3D graphic generator of choice, driving triangles back to the sea!

Or something.

Also don't get the idea that Shadow Ops was a particularly good game or anything! But it was at least good enough to make me play through the whole thing (whatever that means). I had the added advantage of being able to complain to my friend every time I found something stupid. Usually the answer was "not enough time/money" or "the producer thought it would be more fun this way."

Such as, when you start a level that takes place immediately after the last one, story-wise, and you get a totally different weapon loadout. No explanation given, except somebody thought it would be more fun to have a shotgun there. Or the fact that the cutscenes were all done as CGI with pseudo-in-game assets by an outsourced studio in Russia, if I recall. With so much lead time in the production that if something didn't match between the game and the cutscenes there was no way to fix it.

Also Lols: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bV0EspfV4qY

Bonus Ninja Edit link to another hilarious cutscene: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wlb7xsPIdcA


Wait wait wait, now that I'm following the related links I just can't stop linking...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QCnYsEb4bSg

Incidentally I tried playing this game again recently and I couldn't get past the first level. I could try it again, but only as an ICGC-type experiment. I've been meaning to play through Halo (1) again, actually...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
That is because it started as a mod for Half-Life. I remember around when it was being developed, everyone was really hyped about it because it sounded really fucking cool and it was turning into quite a major TC, Valve even gave them the support to make it a retail product. Then when it came out there was mass disappointment because of woah, hype! and everyone was all Sad and probably went back to playing Op Force.


Yeah, I knew it was originally a TC and it shows. The actual gameplay is extremely amateurish. There is way more health than you need, yet often not enough ammo, enemies seem to either do (literally in some cases) no damage at all or way too much, combat itself is rather clunky.

The game works best when it's acting liek an amusement park; it has some amazingly awesome setpieces and scripted events and even some very clever narrative ideas, the environments are wonderul, but when it tries top be a FPS, it suffers. Also when you actually confront the dinosaur on the first world it's rather underwhelming!

Slonie, those cut-scenes actually feel kind of impressive! I mean, they're cheesy as hell, but they somehow feel... kinda classy.

The game still doesn't seem that interesting to me, to be honest. As I said before, ZOMBIE did much less interesting games after the ones I mentioned earlier. I'm sure they were all better games, they were just... boring.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slonie wrote:


Also Lols: http://youtube.com/watch?v=bV0EspfV4qY


That was like someone sat down and watched 12 hours of american war films and tv and then made a movie of the dream they had.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well put, good sir!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks!

I'm watching the on-rails intro to Gunman Chronicles! It is rubbish! It's so derivative of Half-Life's intro it's like a bad joke. Also, it brings up a major bugbear I have about sci-fi FPS games, namely DEVELOPERS NOT KNOWING WHAT COLOUR SPACE IS

Here's the exam they should give to anyone who wants to make a game of this type again.

Quote:

Q: What colour is space? Is it:

a.) bright purple

b.) green

c: dark blue

d: vomit-coloured

e: black (!!!!)

Here's a hint if you get stuck: wait until night-time, stand outside your house and LOOK UP AT THE FUCKING SKY
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But space is cool and even cooler when it's got cool colours!!! So it's cooler than the Half-Life 1 intro!!!

I really did enjoy some of the little things they did with the intro, but yeah, you can't get past how much of a complete rip-off it is.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's funny, I have no problem with films or games that depict sound in space. Colours, though! Don't get me started! It's called dark matter for a reason, jackoff! Also, you hear people talking about the majesty of space- the non-stop gay disco of space, though! That's a new one on me! Except when I play your shitty computer games!!

I know the swathes of colour are meant to be nebulas, but they're really overused, not to mention ugly. Space is beautiful!

Also neither a camera nor the human eye can look at the light side of a nearby planet or other large celestial body without underexposing the surrounding stars and thereby rendering them invisible! This is something that passed by pretty much everyone except Stanley Kubrick, which is one of the reasons why 2001 is visually such a cut above every other sci-fi movie (fact)!.


Last edited by Harveyjames on Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

harvey hates 2001

I liked Dark Sector more when it had a rad sci-fi setting. The trailer back then had more depth than any of this mutant nonsense they've got going on now.

More games need actual nebulas as settings.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't even heard of that game, just looked it up... eh sounds like it could be ok?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, no, the new one sounds "okay". The original looked great. Smart writing and setting, neat art design, awesome score, cool stealth gameplay (They said they wanted a character more in the Wolverine mould, the kind that could afford to get caught and was more of a hunter). Of course, that's just from this one trailer, so who knows how else they could have fucked it up?

But the new one was made to compete with Gears of War, apparently. Poor choice.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
harvey hates 2001


Funny you should have written that as I was editing my post! 2001 doesn't overuse nebulas, it treats them as something exceptional and worthy of our attention rather than just using them as set dressing, which debases their cinematic currency.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you on those points. I still think a game with an exclusive nebula setting would be neat.

Someone needs to make an FPS taking place in an actual, physical asteroid belt.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duke Nukem Galaxy?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duke Nukem Can See Forever

Duke Nukem is Full of Stars

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
No, no, the new one sounds "okay". The original looked great. Smart writing and setting, neat art design, awesome score, cool stealth gameplay (They said they wanted a character more in the Wolverine mould, the kind that could afford to get caught and was more of a hunter). Of course, that's just from this one trailer, so who knows how else they could have fucked it up?

But the new one was made to compete with Gears of War, apparently. Poor choice.


Man, that did look like it could be pretty awesome.

I wonder if it was the publishers idea.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watching that clip, I'm amazed that game developers still aren't in the practise of hiring scriptwriters. 'The waters did recede, and we burst forth like seeds?' That's worse than 'I don't care what you heard about me, a bitch can't get a dollar out of me'.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that line made me think of ejaculation!
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harvey, what are you babbling about?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mucf3kdVzes

That clip. The writing is terrible.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames wrote:
Watching that clip, I'm amazed that game developers still aren't in the practise of hiring scriptwriters.


Every time this happens, the writing sucks. They should hire good writers in general.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean 'The waters receded and we burst forth like seeds' might have been serviceable. But adding that 'did' in there to affect a literary air was a bad move. For one thing it makes the guy sound like Miguel from Fat Chicks in Party Hats. OH! I DID FART! For another, it means you've got a 'seed' sound at the end of each line, so it sounds like he's trying to talk in rhyme like Yogi Bear. Don't even get me started on the mixed metaphors.

Even if the professional writer's writing sucks, it can't suck much worse than that. Hiring writers should be standard practise if you're going to have a lot of dialogue. You wouldn't get a programmer to do the music or an artist to do the programming.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuck, the only story you really need from a FPS is "monsters bad, heavy ordinance good, oh snap! they've invaded, get your ass to Mars".

Yay! Community Chest III for DooM II is out. I just spent five hours doing nothing but playing it and I'm not even through the fucking thing yet. That makes me a saddo as I couldn't think of anything else better to do with my time. There are two more out which are worth a look even though the first one is really hit and miss. Community Chest 2 is only slightly hit and miss, probably less than CC3 so it gets my pick of the three, if only for the map The Mucous Flow.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winged Assassins (1984) wrote:
Fuck, the only story you really need from a FPS is "monsters bad, heavy ordinance good, oh snap! they've invaded, get your ass to Mars".


You must not be a huge fan of Valve games!

Seriously though I agree, but that doesn't stop the developers from filling their games full of shitty, shitty dialogue. I'm just saying if you must have dialogue, don't half-ass it, get someone to do it properly. It hasn't done Valve any harm.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harveyjames I totally dig what my homies Valve do with games. If you replace Mars with science base you've basically got Half-Life and that is fly with me.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'm the only person for whom bad writing can ruin the experience, then... That Dark Matter clip just made me think 'if the best these guys can come up with is "The waters did recede, and we burst forth like seeds" then there's probably nothing here for me in this game', which I guess will sound odd to most people since game design and screenwriting are two very separate skills. My thought process goes something like 'if they're dumb enough to fuck up screenwriting so badly, they're probably too dumb to have had good ideas in other areas'. It really taints the rest of the game for me.

Then again I enjoy The Phantom Menace! Maybe I should think this over!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I also hate it when games have shitty dailouge and such which ruin the overall experience. I think most games could benefit from drastically reduced dailouge. I just started playing Gears of War and I sure wish the dailouge wasn't cheesy crap, since the main story doesn't seem terrible.

Anyway, I need to post about one more FPS game before I go to bed (hitting the hay early today) but... which one???
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread is actually making me a little depressed. It's reminding me of so many interesting and fun games from the past, and games today... I don't know, nothing has really excited me for awhile. I mean, I bought a 360 mainly for Marathon and Doom (and bioshock and Halo 3). The last time I was really excited was when I got a Wii because, finally, something new and exciting! That didn't last long though, what with no games on the system. I dunno. Is it just me, or a games getting too polished? If you know what I mean. Becoming an increasingly jaded gamer ITT.

Anyway, one more game... I think I found one that's kinda interesting.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was researching christian games for an article i lost interest in eons ago, there is a surprising amount of christian games and even more surprisingly most are FPS games! Most are the kind of crap you would expect; games that look and feel like they were made in 3D GAME CREATION kits and released on the Valusoft label (Something Awful reviewed a couple).

But there was Eternal War: Shadows of Light which caught my attention more than the others because they actually licensed the Quake 1 engine!

Here's the press release:

Quote:
Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada - February - Western Canada based Two Guys Software released the retail version of Eternal War: Shadows of Light for online ordering. Hailed as the “Best Christian Game to date” (CCGR.org) the highly anticipated fast-paced action game is set in a spiritual conflict situation.

Featured in publications such as the Wall Street Journal and St. Louis KMOV (Channel 4), Eternal War: Shadows of Light is a hard hitting, pick-up-and-go, action packed first person shooter that challenges the player with intelligent demons and creative puzzles. Being labelled as “Great” and “The Best Christian Game to date” (CCGR.org) Eternal War takes place in the suicidal mind of John Coronado, a desperate teen ready to take desperate measures to escape his “personal hell”. You are Mike, a friend sent to help John out of his pain and struggles before time runs out. Travelling down the road of malice and destruction, Mike is faced with hundreds of obstacles ahead of him to overcome through the only Power that John thought abandoned him. A demo is available for players to download and check out. http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca


Heavy stuff! But could it really be the best christian game ever? Even better than Super Noahs Ark 3D?

Well it was ok, basically it played like a bland Quake TC. It was hilariously unchristian, very dark and gothic, somewhat violent and the soundtrack was HEAVY FUCKING METAL and the player character even had a few Duke 3D style quips. Apart from the premise, the only christian thing about it is weapon names such as SMITE and TRINITY BLAST and a PRAYER button that heals you. And a couple bible phrases.

Anyway, I always wondered who this game was really made for, I mean, at first I thought they were trying to make christinaity look him and cool for the DEPRESSED TEENS this game was supposedly aimed at, but then I thought... have you ever seen that episode of South Park where Cartman starts a Christian rockband because he figures it would be easy money? It was probably the same thing here. They saw a shitty game and thought HEY lets make it a christian game it will SELL MILLIONS.

Anyway you can try out the demo for yourself if you're curious!

Speaking of christian games, anyone remember Eon Of Tears? It was an RPG that was supposed to take you through the entire bible, and depending on how you played, you ended up playing as either SATAN or JESUS HIMSELF towards the end. Here is a trailer:

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/1104.html

TRAGICALLY I don't think it will ever get released Sad
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from simply being just a shitty game, the dialogue in Heavy Metal 2 was what turned me away from the game. It's so long and full of garbage, that I can't possibly expect the game to be any better. Even the modeling is ridiculous. Your main character has a stomach, that leads into boobs. I'm not even kidding, and you'd have to look at her model to get exactly what I'm saying, but it's pretty much, head, neck, boobs, stomach. It's all just too shitty for me to continue remembering.

I guess you could say I'm kind of finicky in that matter. I typically first judge the rest of the game based on its story. If the story is too generic, that doesn't really bother me, I actually enjoy generic. But when a story is just pure shit, that doesn't bode well with me.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

a proposal: writers need to study the bad action films of the 80s to learn how to write good "bad" dialogue instead of going for "in a world in a place in a time" style mac gruff bullhockey.

far cry got that hells of right.

"AND I HAD A RASH...SO I PUT SOME OINTMENT ON IT...AND IT GOT BETTER!"

i mean everyone's like lolz gordon can't talk none but seriously has a better design choice ever been made? i think not.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think people who complain about mute main characters, are people who are just pissed that they can't complain about how stupid the main character sounds.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get why people say they can't get attached to mute characters. Because they obviously do. Call of Duty 4 actually plays with emotion a number of times, from what little I've played.

dhex, you really should play it. It's the best example of gaming story-telling done right since Half-Life 2. That and you get to play not one, but two badasses of pure British pedigree.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
But there was Eternal War: Shadows of Light which caught my attention more than the others because they actually licensed the Quake 1 engine!

Here's the press release:

Quote:
Sherwood Park, Alberta, Canada - February - Western Canada based Two Guys Software released the retail version of Eternal War: Shadows of Light for online ordering. Hailed as the “Best Christian Game to date” (CCGR.org) the highly anticipated fast-paced action game is set in a spiritual conflict situation.

Featured in publications such as the Wall Street Journal and St. Louis KMOV (Channel 4), Eternal War: Shadows of Light is a hard hitting, pick-up-and-go, action packed first person shooter that challenges the player with intelligent demons and creative puzzles. Being labelled as “Great” and “The Best Christian Game to date” (CCGR.org) Eternal War takes place in the suicidal mind of John Coronado, a desperate teen ready to take desperate measures to escape his “personal hell”. You are Mike, a friend sent to help John out of his pain and struggles before time runs out. Travelling down the road of malice and destruction, Mike is faced with hundreds of obstacles ahead of him to overcome through the only Power that John thought abandoned him. A demo is available for players to download and check out. http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca


Heavy stuff! But could it really be the best christian game ever? Even better than Super Noahs Ark 3D?

I thought everyone knew that Requiem: Avenging Angel was the best Christian game ever. Because you could turn fools into salt and boil their blood with your psychotic angel powers. Or possess them and make them kill their rube friends.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i will play call of duty 4 at some point in the future, like next month sometime.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winged Assassins (1984) wrote:

I thought everyone knew that Requiem: Avenging Angel was the best Christian game ever. Because you could turn fools into salt and boil their blood with your psychotic angel powers. Or possess them and make them kill their rube friends.


Well, Requiem wasn't created with Christian intentions! We've talked about this game before... I'm still dissapointed that they wussed out of making your character spawn naked, making the the first objective to find some clothes.

Some fun ANGELIC POWERS and HELL LEVELS but dissapointinly medicore in every other respect.

I played the demo of Call of Duty 4 and it annoyed the hell out of me, maybe I should just rent it for the 360.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dracko have you read my thing yet, tell me how much it sucks already, GOD.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I have. I'll re-read it, okay?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whatever, just tell me if the ideas are interesting or not.

i hate doing early shifts, i'm always in such a shitty mood for the rest of the day.

I FEEL LIKE PICKING A FIGHT

BUT I'M TOO TIRED TO ACTUALLY FIGHT
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
Well, Requiem wasn't created with Christian intentions! We've talked about this game before... I'm still dissapointed that they wussed out of making your character spawn naked, making the the first objective to find some clothes.

They could have made you beat up that drunk hobo who sings to nick his gear though that wouldn't be very angelic. Despite not ten minutes after that you get to start killing all kinds of rubes with automatic weaponry and electric shocks.

Quote:
Some fun ANGELIC POWERS and HELL LEVELS but dissapointinly medicore in every other respect.

I came away with the impression that although there was some nicely done visuals (the soldier models especially were some of the best designed I've seen in a game) the game still managed to feel incredibly barren. Though it did manage to be oodles better than everything else that 3DO put there name to. It's probably for the best that it died off real quick since the planned level editor would only allow you to make multiplayer levels and not single player levels, that's a sure fire way to kill a FPS in my eyes.

Fun fact; Requiem was the first game to have a starting level that successfully conveyed the feeling of being a gerbil trapped in a lower intestine to the player.
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Cycle
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They also made UPRISING which was a pretty swell game, though Battlezone was better.

Also, lol regarding the gerbil remark. I guess the soldiers looked pretty cool! I can't remember it too well. I didn't bother finishing the game, even though I paid for it when I had hardly any money.

Man, I didn't know it had multiplayer! I guess it would be an obvious addition, but still. I think the game was already pretty dead regardless.
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
Also, lol regarding the gerbil remark.

Before Prey pioneered the use of sphincter doors Requiem had already laid the groundwork.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halo 3 also used sphincer doors and I'm sure I've seen them in a few other games.

THE NEW LENSFLARE?
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends how bright the light is.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Rero, you are such a card!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goatse also anal shotgun.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh right, one of the UT games had that goatse reference, hey.


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Harveyjames
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's brilliant. They missed out the wedding ring, though.
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am diving into my bag of now obscure games I can post about.

Montezuma's Return. Yes it is a sequel to Montezuma's Revenge done in the first person platform style.From what I can remember form the demo you ran around, climbed on ropes, punched things with your fists and when you looked down you could see your feet. This was a first in gaming that would be followed by some other games I can't recall like Trespasser, if your tits weren't in the way. Montezuma's Return is probably a good game, it's probably a bad game but I can't be arsed recalling if I liked it or not. Half a cheek from me.

Deus. No, not Deus Ex, this came first and was a sort of sequel to Robinson's Requiem which I never played but liked the idea. When it was announced I thought that Deus Ex was a sequel to this but further information dashed my hopes. In this game you are a bounty hunter and must survive on an alien planet whilst killing things and doing survival stuff. Like injecting chemicals into your eyes (this is a lie). Like the game In the last paragraph I've only played the demo but got killed by a mess of polygons after turning left and walking for a bit. It also didn't run too well on my at the time PC so that really turned me off of the game. You should probably check it out if you like injecting chemicals into your eyes and getting killed by what possibly are monsters whenever you turn to the left and walk for a bit. Compelling.

Robinson's Requiem. I haven't played this one but the game sounds a lot more fun on MobyGames than it does on Underdogs. Possibly you can inject chemicals into your eyes but you probably won't get killed by polygons since there are sprites instead.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So do people still play Team Fortress 2?
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