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simplicio .
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Fellows, we have it all wrong. |
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Zelda is a thoroughly established set of rules (precepts even), manufactured as a very polished tech demo (unlike the fragmented works often seen as console launch titles) to highlight the new abilities of Nintendo hardware while retaining enough overall familiarity to make sure that newness is never alienating.
That's it, really. _________________ "Worlds turn the new machine to thee. To thee. Though, thine the new machine space."
-Kurt Schwitters, 1919 |
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The Great Unwashed .
Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 359 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:26 am Post subject: |
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I agree, at least as far as Twilight Princess is concerned. It is in almost every way a series lacking innovation, with Majora's Mask being perhaps the only exception. Still, I endorse your statements, and will vote for you as Governor-General at any given upcoming election. _________________
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Simplicio, this isn't a reaction to Phantom Hourglass, is it? Because I might go get it today. Is it as unremarkable as dessgeega makes it out to be?
And regardless of the iteration, I always like to think of Zelda games as extremely lavish games of Puzzle League.
edit: And by "always" I mean in the last month-and-a-half or so since my roommate because obsessed with Pokemon Puzzle League. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:58 am Post subject: |
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helicopterp wrote: | Simplicio, this isn't a reaction to Phantom Hourglass, is it? Because I might go get it today. Is it as unremarkable as dessgeega makes it out to be? |
it's fast. this is a pretty refreshing change after twilight princess, which drags and drags. phantom hourglass clips along at a pretty fast pace.
otherwise, yes, it's much like simplicio says. _________________
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simplicio .
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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helicopterp wrote: | Simplicio, this isn't a reaction to Phantom Hourglass, is it? |
Yes, it is, but also it's a reaction to the consistent moaning that occurs with every new Zelda release, about handholding and overexplanation and not being enough like SotC or whatever. Zelda is an introduction to hardware, always very well produced. So with Phantom Hourglass, you'll be using the microphone, closing and opening the lid, swapping and utilizing both screens in various ways, mapping, and most importantly controlling everything with the stylus. Much like Twilight Princess, that alternate control scheme's so well polished (and lack of extreme challenge helps here too) and feels so natural that it's not even really exciting; it feels like you've been doing things that way forever, especially when it's grafted onto such overfamiliar gameplay mechanics.
This isn't a dismissal of Zelda, by the way. It was just the sudden realization that Zelda exists on its own set terms (and has since LttP, I think, with that strange exception of Majora's Mask), and most discussion of it on an artistic basis, especially regarding specific iterations, is generally missing the point.
dessgeega wrote: | it's fast. this is a pretty refreshing change after twilight princess, which drags and drags. phantom hourglass clips along at a pretty fast pace. |
I think this is generally the case of "2D" vs. 3D Zeldas though, right? The immediacy of action as presented on a single top-down screen, vs. the inevitability of it appearing on the horizon and then making your way there. I was thinking too that they start giving you warp points much earlier here than in Wind Waker to alleviate ship travel.
My favorite new mechanic: No wallet. _________________ "Worlds turn the new machine to thee. To thee. Though, thine the new machine space."
-Kurt Schwitters, 1919 |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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simplicio wrote: | Zelda is an introduction to hardware, always very well produced. |
This dosen't make sense because TP was never intended as this. Not for the Wii, and not for the GC.
I kind of get what you're saying in this meaning
"Hey dad, can I get a new videogame system?"
"Sure daughter/son/it! Let's start you out with... Ahh yes, Zelda! I hear all the kids raving about this one."
But I'm honestly sure that everyone knows that Zelda is not really targeted at this audience nor is it the largest purchasing force. It's just a masquerade, a charade: it allows Nintendo to fool itself.
Really the game you're talking about is Wii Sports, or Nintendogs. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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I started Phantom Hourglass today. It's really not very interesting. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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simplicio .
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Shapermc wrote: | simplicio wrote: | Zelda is an introduction to hardware, always very well produced. |
This dosen't make sense because TP was never intended as this. Not for the Wii, and not for the GC. |
So theory #2: Zelda is a set of static mechanics, aesthetics and gameplay elements, varying from iteration to iteration only to include all available hardware features?
I kinda like that better. _________________ "Worlds turn the new machine to thee. To thee. Though, thine the new machine space."
-Kurt Schwitters, 1919 |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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I've been playing a lot of metroid lately (like, right now I'm working on Fusion and III) and you can basically use that definition for Metroid.
Speaking of which, metroid in the end (after II) started to do a lot of the things that irritate me about Zelda but it seems to (mostly) fit better. The exception here is, to use an exact example, how every time you get a new missile upgrade in Metroid III you have to wait for the Get missile music to finish while there's a text box saying "You now have 5 More missiles! Use the Select button + A to fire missiles"
I guess I just wish that these games would discriminate better. Like in Metroid II when I got the Vira suit (note: I didn't have the manual) I was like .... WTF does this do again? The game didn't give me a text box saying that you can move at normal speed in water. Like, if I get a missle upgrade the FIRST time, sure tell me what it does and how to use it. But like, the tenth time in about 30 minutes, I'm pretty sure I get the idea at this point.
I still enjoy these games, I just wish that Nintendo had more faith in it's players.
You know?
EDIT: "to include all hardware features" GOD, Super Metroid really needed to go with a far more minimalistic approach to the controls. Just because you have 4 face buttons, 2 shoulders buttons, a start and a select button doesn't mean they all need to do something unique. I almost wish there was a GBA port of the game so that Nintendo had to be a bit more restrained. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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simplicio .
Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, but at least Prime: Hunters didn't have you doing 4th wall-breaking, text-adventure style DS hijinks. I was lead to my original theory by the overwhelming in-game prominence of hardware usage in Zelda.
DID YOU KNOW THERE'S A GBA LINK CABLE?
DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN CONNECT GBAS TO YOUR GAMECUBE?
DID YOU KNOW THERE'S A SPEAKER IN THE WII REMOTE?
HEY, LISTEN!
DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN TOUCH WITH THE STYLUS?
DID YOU KNOW YOU CAN DRAW ON THE MAPS?
HEY LISTEN!
DID YOU KNOW THERE'S A MICROPHONE?
I'm pretty well oblivious to the hand holding at this point; it's so ingrained in first party Nintendo titles that I just take it as a given and ignore it pretty well. _________________ "Worlds turn the new machine to thee. To thee. Though, thine the new machine space."
-Kurt Schwitters, 1919 |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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I don't include any of the 3D Metroid games as metroid games honestly. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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The Great Unwashed .
Joined: 27 May 2006 Posts: 359 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:49 am Post subject: |
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I roll my eyes at you Shaper! Metroid Prime is to my mind one of the best games I have ever played. Just because it's not a 2D shooter doesn't mean it's not dripping with atmosphere, gorgeous visuals and simply oozes fun. _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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metroid prime isn't a bad game. (though it isn't a game that doesn't have flaws either.) but i think it's fair to think of the prime games their own series, independent of the 2d metroid games. nintendo seems to consider them as such. _________________
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Ethoscapade .
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 276
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:24 am Post subject: |
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god dammit shaper it's varia and i wouldn't nitpick but you've posted about it at least five times in the last week
.. thank you!!
i'm glad you seem to be enjoying super, though. the controls i will readily concede are an area where the game wanted to be just a little more "super" than was necessary; elsewise i love it as much as the next guy. |
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aderack .
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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I think the control sprawl is what makes me not-enjoy Super Metroid. There's certainly enough to respect in it. Still, I can never quite get over how much I hate to actually, physically play it. _________________
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helicopterp .
Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:37 am Post subject: |
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It's probably been about a year since I last played it, but the controls never bothered me too much because of the sound effects tied to the button presses. I know that's a little strange--regardless, the game is sonically incredible. _________________ Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one. |
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: |
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I just replayed Crackdown with a friend, swapping the controller.
(Incidentally, I'm enjoying having and being a game spectator more than I ever thought I would these days. My housemate tends to see things in puzzles and random details in games like Bioshock, and hardly ever wants to play. My other gaming buddy likes to play some, and I'm surprised how much I don't mind riding shotgun, sometimes more attentive and helpful, sometimes less. Hell, maybe Halo 3 story mode is better played this way than the split screen we tried before.)
Anyway, Crackdown's narrator is decent and generally inobtrusive (I guess that's because he's a VO rather than a "press A to continue") but it is kind of weird that near the end of the game you get messages describing the basics of the powerup system and race starts. Also, he tends to interject "nice!" and "good work, agent!" at oddly inappropriate times. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | metroid prime isn't a bad game. (though it isn't a game that doesn't have flaws either.) but i think it's fair to think of the prime games their own series, independent of the 2d metroid games. nintendo seems to consider them as such. |
Yeah, this was all I meant. Not that they're "not worthy" or something, just when people talk about "Metroid" I don't include the Prime games. When people talk about "Metroid Prime" I don't include the 2D ones.
See what I mean?
kirkjerk wrote: | Crackdown's narrator is decent and generally inobtrusive |
Skills for kills agent! _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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extrabastardformula .
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 295
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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aderack wrote: | I think the control sprawl is what makes me not-enjoy Super Metroid. There's certainly enough to respect in it. Still, I can never quite get over how much I hate to actually, physically play it. | This is true. I realized all my fond memories of it were on a SNES advantage or emulated with keys. On an actual pad with the face buttons and shoulders it's an unholy beast, especially after playing Fusion which does it so much better. _________________ Signature:
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Scratchmonkey .
Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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kirkjerk wrote: | Anyway, Crackdown's narrator is decent and generally inobtrusive (I guess that's because he's a VO rather than a "press A to continue") but it is kind of weird that near the end of the game you get messages describing the basics of the powerup system and race starts. Also, he tends to interject "nice!" and "good work, agent!" at oddly inappropriate times. |
Actually, I really really wanted a "turn off The Voice" option by the end of Crackdown. |
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D-A-I-S .
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 123
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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could one of you please describe, in detail, what is wrong with super metroid's control scheme and options |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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D-A-I-S wrote: | could one of you please describe, in detail, what is wrong with super metroid's control scheme and options |
Simply, it's too complex for it's own good.
You have a separate button for either angling your shot up or down.
You have a separate button for running.
You have to cycle through your missiles which results in a constant waste of super missiles.
The Grappling hook.
You can't get out of your crouch without hitting up.
Compare this to Fusion which has:
One button to angle your shot (then you can set the angle as up or down)
Hold button for missiles for easy switching and less waste.
No grappling hook.
I can probably expand on this as I get further into Super Metroid because I know I'm missing stuff. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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extrabastardformula .
Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 295
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Also the most finicky wall jump since Strider on NES, the diamond arrangement of face buttons not being great for doing everything while holding run (which you are almost always doing) and the inexplicable "moonwalking"option. _________________ Signature:
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Ethoscapade .
Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 276
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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the wall jump is actually very easy, you just have to push away then jump and there is such cognitive dissonance in doing that for most people. |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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I had some pretty major problems with the wall jump my first time through. After playing Fusion and ZM I got a bit more use to it. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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aderack .
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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Right. You just have to juggle so many buttons, so inanely. And they're so awkwardly placed, in respect to each other. Running, jumping, then shooting at an angle is possible if you're double-jointed. And if you practice a lot. _________________
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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i've always felt like that philosophy carried over into the level design, too. there are so many unnecessary items and places. maridia seems to exist just as a place to hide missile packs. _________________
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D-A-I-S .
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 123
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Were there any actual points at which you had to run, jump and shoot? Hell, I don't even remember there being that many places where you even have to do a running jump.
Also, you could remap buttons! Remember?
Shapermc wrote: | You have a separate button for either angling your shot up or down. |
Actually, there's one for each. How often, though, do you find yourself needing to stand still while you fire an angled shot?
Shapermc wrote: | You have a separate button for running. |
This was an oversight, yes, but hardly one that created much difficulty, given how rarely you needed to run. ebf, note that needing to and wanting to are quite different!
Quote: | You have to cycle through your missiles which results in a constant waste of super missiles. |
Um, if you're clumsy, maybe? You're going to argue this plays right into your argument, but pressing X automatically resets the item cycle.
Quote: | The Grappling hook. |
What does that have to do with the control scheme?
Shapermc wrote: | You can't get out of your crouch without hitting up. |
Um, what about hitting left? Or right? Or jumping? I'm not really sure how else you would do it.....?
Shapermc wrote: | Compare this to Fusion |
er, why? It's not like Fusion came before Super Metroid. Stating that the control scheme of Fusion is more sensible and economical than that of Super Metroid can't actually be considered a strike against Super Metroid. Not rationally, at least.
dessgeega wrote: | i've always felt like that philosophy carried over into the level design, too. there are so many unnecessary items and places |
almost like real life! |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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D-A-I-S wrote: | dessgeega wrote: | i've always felt like that philosophy carried over into the level design, too. there are so many unnecessary items and places |
almost like real life! |
yeah it's like the other day i was taking the bus downtown to visit my friend ridley but there was this pit of lava in the way i was like what is this shit and the driver was all you need to transfer to maridia kill the drackomire and get the gravity jump hey try to pick up some missiles while you're up there things grow like mushrooms anyway when i saw ridley i was like what the hell was up with all the padding on the way over here can't two friends just get together and enjoy each other's company
no really dais what are you talking about _________________
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D-A-I-S .
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 123
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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at this point? publication rights. |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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dais, i know your schtick is to be a fanboy and then when anyone calls you on it to respond with an obscure one-liner and pretend you're smarter than everyone, but could you not do that here? we like discussion on these forums. _________________
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kirkjerk .
Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 1227
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought Super Mario World was another example of button-itis on the SNES.
It was cool that Nintendo came up with an arrangement that let buttons act as a second crosspad, but some games just went a bit nuts with it.
On the N64 and especially the GC, you see a bigger commitment by Nintendo to excellent button differentiation, while Xbox and PS are sticking with the good old pseudocrosspad. _________________ =/ \(<D)_/
==/\/ >_ kirkjerk.com |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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D-A-I-S wrote: | Shapermc wrote: | Compare this to Fusion |
er, why? It's not like Fusion came before Super Metroid. Stating that the control scheme of Fusion is more sensible and economical than that of Super Metroid can't actually be considered a strike against Super Metroid. Not rationally, at least. |
I'm not going to argue the other points, because you're mostly right, but that doesn't stop them from feeling like horribly bloated controls. The quote above proves this. Fusion has more things going on than super and 2 less buttons. Not only does it end up incorporating everything, it does it better: something that should have been done in Super. I'm not saying that you can hold the controls of Fusion against Super, I'm just saying that I know it can be done more elegantly and had it not been for trying to use every damn button on the controller the development team could have created a better control scheme. _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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kirkjerk wrote: | I always thought Super Mario World was another example of button-itis on the SNES. |
super mario world confused me so much when i first played it. does a mario game really need two different jump buttons? that the new, lower jump is mapped to the a button and the "normal" jump to the b button was hard for me to grasp, used to the a button jump and b button run of the nesicom marios.
a and b buttons make sense, there's a heirarchy there (primary and secondary functions). l and r make sense, too (left and right shoulders). x and y mean nothing, really. i think this is the period where a lot of players became alienated. i wrote about this in issue four, though. _________________
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D-A-I-S .
Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 123
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | dais, i know your schtick is to be a fanboy and then when anyone calls you on it to respond with an obscure one-liner and pretend you're smarter than everyone, but could you not do that here? we like discussion on these forums. |
maybe you shouldn't respond with fanfics!
Very, very few games exist as a truly straight line from where you start to to the final objective. To criticize a sidetrip in a game where exploration is a heavily emphasized and thematic element is a bit silly. Are there areas of the game that could be objectively considered unnecessary? Of course! That applies to most every game out there, most every media out there. Including quite a few that you would not be inclined to make the same criticisms about. I can't place with 100% accuracy your reason for choosing to criticize Super Metroid in this manner, but I'd pin at least some of it on your obvious need to express some amount of disfavor towards "sacred cows" in gaming.
I'm sorry for being my usual terrible self about this, but lately I have been very tired and few things fail to tire me more than people criticizing the necessity of game elements over a decade after the fact. I do it myself and find it very, very tiring.
as for shaper, I don't know, I don't care. it's all moot anyways. |
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Swimmy .
Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:06 am Post subject: |
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(Hated this post, murked.)
D-A-I-S wrote: | This was an oversight, yes, but hardly one that created much difficulty, given how rarely you needed to run. ebf, note that needing to and wanting to are quite different! |
Of course you need to run, if you want to see some hot Samus undie action. _________________
"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin |
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Six .
Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 313 Location: montreal
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:51 am Post subject: |
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Swimmy wrote: | Of course you need to run, if you want to see some hot Samus undie action. |
Point.
Of course, it seems like she'll take the armor off for just about any old reason these days.
You know, it suddenly strikes me that what started off as this surprise revelation (literally ha ha ha) about your enigmatic protagonist in the original Metroid somehow got corrupted into a more-or-less straight-up act of fanservice.
Except it almost seems from the under-five-hour ending variants (spoilarz, natch) that this was their intention from the beginning. |
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Shapermc Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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D-A-I-S wrote: | it's all moot anyways. |
You sound like you need a hug :( _________________ “The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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glitch .
Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 37
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:34 am Post subject: |
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i always thought super metroid's control scheme quite fitting.
basic straight-forward controls wouldn't suit the way Samus moves in that game. super metroid's controls are far more low-level than most games that era, the game doesn't finish your moves for you, you gotta do everything yourself. in a way that's super metroid's equivalent of the very close camera of Metroid 2. i mean, compare the average platformer hero's "oh you're not actively telling me to crouch anymore i'll just get up then ok" attitude with the heavy feel of Samus' suit. ultra precise and responsive, but it's a struggle to pilot it effectively. like the first 3 metroids just throw the player into an alien environment without any help, super metroid extends that to the controls.
not like i never had trouble with them, but imho the game would have benefitted from having more buttons available rather than less. uni-directional weapon-selection is suck alright, and i can never remember which shoulder button is up and which is down. with an extra pair of shoulder buttons, it would have been perfect.
just curious, how would you guys have handled running if not with a seperate button?
cause having to fire a useless shot just to start running is such an immersion breaker... -_-;; |
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dessgeega loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 6563 Location: bohan
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:45 am Post subject: |
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well, fusion and zero mission handle it by having you run automatically (though you only gain speed over long areas). that works fine because if you can be running in one of those games, you usually want to be. and i always felt the different in speed between samus's walk and run in metroid 3 was too negligible to really warrant an extra button. _________________
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aderack .
Joined: 15 Jun 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: San Francisco
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Though if it had to be mapped to an individual button, R would be perfect. Just put angled shot on the L button. _________________
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glitch .
Joined: 27 Nov 2006 Posts: 37
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Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:35 am Post subject: |
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dessgeega wrote: | well, fusion and zero mission handle it by having you run automatically (though you only gain speed over long areas). that works fine because if you can be running in one of those games, you usually want to be. and i always felt the different in speed between samus's walk and run in metroid 3 was too negligible to really warrant an extra button. |
imho that's sensible given the lack of buttons on a GBA, in exactly the same way racing with a D-pad is sensible on a GBA. it just feels kinda... flimsy, i guess. and as you say, if you can be running you usually want to be, true, but there the game fills in the actions you're not explicitly instructing it to perform. good for fast platformers, and a sensible solution for button-shortage, but it does add a layer of interpretation between input and effect, which i feel increases the distance between player and avatar. for me, the move from super metroid controls to zero mission controls feels like taking metroid 2 and zooming out until Samus is Bangaioh-sized. metroid 2 and 3, both in their own way, put the player extremely close to Samus. for me, being so close to my avatar makes me identify with her much stronger and thereby pulls me much deeper into the game-world, and that's what Metroid is all about.
though i guess the reverse argument is equally valid, that having to struggle with controls increases the distance instead. i wonder to what extent a person's experience in this correlates with the degree to which they have automated high-level motor-skills in real life... |
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