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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

space giraffe is out.

and it's great. in fact, guess what - it's actually not that much like tempest. aside from being a tube shooter. it has mechanics that are all its own. though i think "bulling" - knocking enemies off the rim - should have been called "rimming".

but how fucking great is it that this game exists on the xbox 360? in this age of huge teams and ludicrous budgets, this game by two people - who live on a farm - is going to be on more xboxes than some big budget game.

anyway, play it immediately.

there's also a neat trailer for sensible soccer available.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

space giraffe is so good. i just got unlocked the great green arkleseizure achievement. to do this you need to get more than twenty sneeze bonuses on a single stage. if you shoot an enemy bullet, it will bounce back down the web. eventually it will come back up at you. at the end of the stage, you'll get a sneeze bonus for every bullet still in the web. if you can juggle twenty bullets, you will get the great green arkleseizure achievement (a reference to the god from the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy who supposedly sneezed the universe into existence).

i love this game.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this guide to the demo levels of space giraffe explains a lot of basic strategy.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want an Xbox 360 so hard right now.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I only played one game of SG, and only got to level 9, and only realized what all the controls were around level 7... this game is far more confusing than I expected it to be. It's also not very straight forward.

I am Unambitious.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
While I only played one game of SG, and only got to level 9, and only realized what all the controls were around level 7... this game is far more confusing than I expected it to be. It's also not very straight forward.


it took me a while to figure out how everything works. (and i still don't get everything!) read the strategy guide i linked and be persistant!

stage 9 is cube is not for yiffing, right? that stage introduces flowers!

EDIT: also, this game is fabulous when played to the tempest 2000 soundtrack.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, so I played the tutorial and the game is not as straight forward as I thought. I then played one game on the regular levels (before more Biozhock) and I got a higher score but only half as far. I still am not sure what good the RS aiming is for yet, so I'm not using it as it just makes me more confused.

I do have a complaint now that I understand how this works better: the bullets blend in too easily with everything else.

Anyways, I like the game more now that I've figured some things out. I got the Bull achievement. It defiantly has more going on than Tempest, but it is very similar to tempest. A very natural evolution of the tempest gameplay.

Oh, one other complaint: on circular levels I end up going in the wrong direction when on top because I keep thinking that the stick works in 360^ not just left and right. I don't know how it could be handled better, but I imagine that if you were on top that right made you go right again. My brain doesn't work well with tank controls (i.e. always moving the avatar the same direction no matter what the orientation is for the player.).
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dess is making me wish I had a 360 right now. It's torture. For one four dollar game!

Keep posting though, please. This is interesting! Less Tempest-y than I figured it would be. Gotta love Minter.

I guess I'll go back to my lonely Jaguar.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Ok, so I played the tutorial and the game is not as straight forward as I thought. I then played one game on the regular levels (before more Biozhock) and I got a higher score but only half as far. I still am not sure what good the RS aiming is for yet, so I'm not using it as it just makes me more confused.


right stick aiming is there because you want to shoot enemy bullets while ramming enemies with your body. so while you, say, charge right along the rim to bump off enemies, you might aim right to deflect bullets coming towards the rim. aiming makes bullets easier to juggle, and you want to juggle bullets because you get bonuses for them at the end of the stage. you want to bump enemies off the rim because it increases your multiplier. max out your multiplier, then get big points for bullets you've juggled.

after you've played for a while your eyes will have an easier time picking out bullets. they glow rainbow colors, and enemies produce a white muzzle flash when they fire one.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've finally unlocked the girafa garantido achievement: go sixteen stages without losing a life. woohoo! yesterday i picked up "pod preserver" (go sixteen stages without using jumping) and "mine's a 99" (have nine lives and a times-nine multiplier at the same time).

this game handles custom soundtracks wonderfully. it was designed to - it incorporates the xbox's neon visualizer, which llamasoft developed. when you earn a bonus stage, your soundtrack cuts out and is replaced with one of the game's downtempo bonus tracks - because the bonus stages are supposed to be chillout stages. so no matter what music you're playing, the bonus stages will always be a relaxing break. your sountrack doesn't start playing until the game actually starts, either.

Shapermc wrote:
Oh, one other complaint: on circular levels I end up going in the wrong direction when on top because I keep thinking that the stick works in 360^ not just left and right. I don't know how it could be handled better, but I imagine that if you were on top that right made you go right again. My brain doesn't work well with tank controls (i.e. always moving the avatar the same direction no matter what the orientation is for the player.).


are you moving and stopping? don't do that. always be moving. i think you'll find your problem goes away then.

the bonus stages help you learn the kind of motion you want to achieve.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, and i posted this at select button. it is hopefully a good explanation of basic play mechanics, though ideally you're expected to figure this stuff out on your own, by coming to terms with the game:

i wrote:
the basic concept to grasp in space giraffe is the power zone. this appears as a white line down the web. when you shoot an enemy or grab a pod, the power zone extends a little bit. if the power zone is extended, you can "bull" enemies off the rim by touching them. otherwise, touching them kills you.

the power zone depletes if you don't shoot enemies - if you let them come up to the rim because you want to knock them off. the reason you'd do this is because bulling enemies off the rim increases your multiplier for the stage. if you give enemies a free pass to the rim, you'll lose your power zone.

this is where the pods come in. in addition to letting you jump (useful for avoiding flowers or other dangerous enemies on the rim), using a pod refills your power zone. so you can let enemies gather on the rim, use a pod to refill your power zone, and then knock all the enemies off for a huge multiplier.

pods, incidentally, are visible as floating lights tethered to your giraffe by flashing cords.

enemy bullets also travel more slowly when in the power zone. you can bounce enemy bullets back by shooting them. they'll eventually return, but you can bounce them back down again. enemy bullets still in play at the end of the stage are worth bonus points, multiplied by your multiplier. so you want to juggle as many enemy bullets as possible while bulling enemies off the rim. it is a juggling act.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what an assault on the senses, that game.
i've only had time to play the demo once so far, and i must say i had no idea what went on.
except for bulling, i remembered that from his IGS presentation.

but to me, the best part, and one of the bigger reasons im excited about it is the option of using your own music and have it affect the background visualiser. im such a sucker for that kind of stoner trippy things.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shaper:

re: flowers

you need to learn to recognize the visual and audio cues that indicate the presence of flowers. for example, when flowers enter the stage, they appear as green lines at the end of the web. by watching the line you can see where the flower will be. when they're on the grid, flower stems appear first green, then white; when the stem fills with white, it will launch (get out of the way). when one of your bullets hits a flower, it will make a glass chimey sound, and white dots will fly from it in all directions. both of these things will indicate the location of a flower. the flower also makes a different, deeper chiming sound when it launches.

i couldn't fit this in a fifteen-second xbox live message, so here you go.

speaking of flowers, achievement unlocked: ewige blumenkraft!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dess, have you thought about interviewing Jeff Minter for The Quarter?

Apologies if this happened and I missed it.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shaper interviewed him at the igf, because i was too nervous. but i did get up the courage to introduce myself and shake his hand!
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What did he smell like?
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This game is one of the many reasons I intend to purchase a 360 at some point.

Also, wow, Sensible Soccer coming to Live Arcade? That's pretty fantastic in and of itself. Let's hope Cannon Fodder and the like will follow.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sensible soccer is coming out this coming wednesday!

Harveyjames wrote:
What did he smell like?


the stars.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to be a hater but... I didn't dig the demo so much.

I always want to like Minter's stuff more than I actually do. :-/
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dess, small correction: MS did not allow Jeff to tap into the Neon engine, so he had to create a neon-like engine for the background. Not like that was a problem for him or anything.

I'm getting better at the game.

I still don't think that "play more and learn to see/recognize these things" is a good design concept. It's a bit too abrasive on the player and it will put too many people off before they get hooked. Also, for not much being like Tempest, you sure can play it like tempest, which will confuse anyone who hasn't played the tutorial.

I appreciate and enjoy the game, but this game isn't attempting to gain a new audience at all.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it actually has a diabolically introverted design. I epically dislike the fact that creatures (the flowers, for example) can act differently on different levels with absolutely no cues (the different amounts of shots required for flowers is crazy annoying.)

It's a gem, but a really incredibly flawed one, which is a real shame as some of the ideas (bulling, power zone, etc.) are great. I can't think of a decent metaphor, but the main problem seems to be that while Jeff has some amazing genius going on, he surrounds himself with sycophants that agree with every decision he makes (the way he flies off the handle to criticism kind of breeds this) so he doesn't get particularly useful feeback that allows him to tweak a game to actual, not imagined, perfection.

Space Giraffe is good but with literally a few weeks proper testing it could have been a good deal better.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aerisdead wrote:
I can't think of a decent metaphor

Ulysses?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Possibly, but I definitey disagree that the game is "internally consistent."
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
aerisdead wrote:
I can't think of a decent metaphor

Ulysses?


In the sense that it challenges a bunch of the medium's receieved ideas, maybe. If that's just a boring comment about its critical reception, then probably not.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys - new to the forum.

That Ulysses post was quite interesting. I'm going to have to snag this game just to see what the fuss is about, and on what side of the fence I would fall. I'm always drawn to works that people either love or hate, whatever the medium, because I want to decide for myself.

Great thing about XBLA is I'm totally willing to slap down five bucks to try it out. Even if I hate it, no big loss. Something tells me I'll enjoy it to some extent, though....
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the tutorial is pretty terrible. i think making sense of the game is part of the experience, though. it's like making peace with god? this game is absolutely not very accessible, though.

as for enemy behaviors varying between stages, well, that's what makes the stages. the contrast between a stage like 3am external, where you spend most of your energy dodging fast-moving bullets, and a stage like valley of the bulls, which has no bullets so you can spend all of your time bulling incredibly fast enemies off the rim, is what makes the game so compelling. it does mean that a new stage means a struggle to come to terms with it, but again, i think that making sense of the game is an important part of the experience.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Giraffe is really starting to grow on me. I am replaying each stage until I get, at least, a starting point bonus for that stage. I probably would enjoy the game more if I just went with the flow (or was a better player), but playing the first 10 or so stages in this fashion have really helped me understand "how to play".
dessgeega wrote:
this game is absolutely not very accessible

I'm afraid this is absolutely correct. Soon after I "got it", my girlfriend and two other friends were watching me play . One of them is an avid game player, and another is colorblind. None of them knew what the hell was going on despite my attempts to explain the gameplay. Needless to say, color blindness is pretty much incompatible with this game.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
as for enemy behaviors varying between stages, well, that's what makes the stages. the contrast between a stage like 3am external, where you spend most of your energy dodging fast-moving bullets, and a stage like valley of the bulls, which has no bullets so you can spend all of your time bulling incredibly fast enemies off the rim, is what makes the game so compelling. it does mean that a new stage means a struggle to come to terms with it, but again, i think that making sense of the game is an important part of the experience.


I think palette swaps or a bigger variety of enemies rather than each of the enemies behavior varying could easily have kept this kind of design but made it way, way more accessible and much easier to learn. There's nothing fun about entering a level and thinking "ach, what do flowers do on this one?" rather than thinking "oh, red flowers that make an oink sound (or whatever) - they're tough to deal with."

Going from 1 to 100 strikes me as something that's going to require way too much rote learning.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aerisdead wrote:
Going from 1 to 100 strikes me as something that's going to require way too much rote learning.

1-99! Anyways, I learn stages as I go for basics. When I hit new ones I just play it like tempest. I don't score well, but I get to see more stages this way.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

147 million. i am currently ranked 58.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

now we recommend music to play space giraffe to!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

first thing i did was put some aphex twin on, like in that first youtube vid. it works wonders.

other favs of mine, sonic youth and LCD soundsystem are neat.
especially LCD, with their nonstop layering of beats.
also, my bloody valentine, for the same reason but with guitar reverb.

yes, i was high as a kite.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sounds like the album "Rounds" by Four Tet would work real well for this.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man, there's a level named after a KLF staduim house track? Uuurgh, so torn. I don't think I want this, though, it just seems so self-referential and like, yeah, Jay Allard, ha ha ha, but will that joke be funny the 100th time? Will it shite.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aerisdead should I play this game?

Hi Aerisdead
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out I'm now SEMI-RESPECTABLE.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turns out i'm SPACE COMMANDER NUMBER ONE.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesE wrote:
Aerisdead should I play this game?

Hi Aerisdead


hi james

james you should buy this game because jeff minter probably deserves $5 for his entire career so far

but do be warned it is pretty frustrating because it's a good game obscured by jeff wanking on himself

;_;
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, but would it maybe be a good game to play with a lot of ripped old dance music, I'm thinking 1991 era?

I might just rip a lot of KLF and Utah Saints and Prodigy and such. Hmmmm.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats my plan.

Also what is your live id card thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a Gamercard yet because I don't have internet working at home. Soon, this will change.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JamesE wrote:
OK, but would it maybe be a good game to play with a lot of ripped old dance music, I'm thinking 1991 era?


You might as well just use the Xbox 360's light synth for that.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hot damn! I thought Space Giraffe was pretty cool at first, but from around level 15 it gets so insane it's awesome. It gets so disorienting yet somehow I could see everything, it was just, whew, I haven't felt like this since Rez.

First time I got a good high score, too. I'm second on my friend high score list, way behind Dess, and only very little above Alice. She's overall rank 674 and I'm rank 671. Close call! I had trouble getting together the points in the last few rounds. I hope to change that next time I get there!

It was nice to be called super mega awesome Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still suck at this game Sad
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
loves your favorite videogame


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i usually either play to the game's own soundtrack or to tempest 2000's (sorry yak).
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just so you guys know, there are a number of exploits that are going to result in a patch and a full reset of all the scoreboards which unfortunately means a full wipe of all your level achievements, meaning yes, you will have to play *that* level again.
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Mac daddy


Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah well!

I just earned the rank this thread is named after!

PROTIP: Some of the acievements are clues on how to score the BIG POINTS.
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
loves your favorite videogame


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goddammit i had twelve achievements
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 1439

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the actual 360 achievements might carry over, just not the record of what levels you've beaten and what scores you've achieved.

Official SG forum, complete with the Yak and Giles himself (includes bits of Yak-Rev. flamewar!):

http://www.yakyak.org/viewforum.php?f=34
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
loves your favorite videogame


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan

PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh that's okay then. i never continue and i was planning on beating my score anyway.
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