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bioshock my monkey! (now also about SPOILARZ)
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arghh, how can you spoil the game for yourself this much? I'm totally coming back to this thread after I play the game though.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really don't see how I'm spoiling myself with info about what sort of game mechanics I can expect. I'm avoiding any mention of the plot as well as I can.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so apparently a demo is up for the 360?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know about that. I do know however that the launch trailer has been released.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cycle wrote:
so apparently a demo is up for the 360?


there is and i am downloading it.

i will let you all know if it is brilliant!
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I set up the demo to download in the background while my 360 is off last night... hoping that everything works I'll be playing the demo tonight.

Also, that games for windows shit is starting to irritate me. I use to like the fact that games for computers could run on any computer and now MS is tying it to OS'. Its just irritating, not that big a deal.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got to play a bit of the demo last night before I went to bed. The atmosphere is predictably excellent. I was a bit sorry to see that the first plasmid is compulsory, particularly when Atlas mentioned how splicers went crazy after going overboard with the body modifications. I'll be pleased if the "huge twist" that review mentioned doesn't have anything to do with plasmids making the protagonist more monstrous.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was fun! I do love the setting, it allows for some great surprises, especially the part where the ____ __ the _____ and you had to ____ or ___. 1959: You freak me out.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i left my xbox on while i slept so the ginormous demo could download.

the opening is gripping. it's been a long time since i've encountered a game with this impressive an opening. the transition from movie to game was so seamless that i didn't realize i could move until a message about using the control stick popped up. i really didn't want to break the scene with the pause menu to invert the y-axis. but what can you do?

is there an option on the xbox dashboard to make y-axis inversion the default? i remember seeing it.

the game reminds me, more than anything, of fallout. in that there's a really strong sense of tone and design which pervades everything. there is a strong sense of place. i died numerous times at the end of the demo. i'm going to replay it later; i think if i take things slower i will be able to get through. otherwise i will be disappointed.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i played through it again. i was able to do it in one life this time, though i used a lot of first-aid kits. (i did get to hack something this time so that was neat.) it doesn't seem like there are a lot of options for getting through the demo area. understandable, given that it's the first area of the game, and there's not a whole lot of tools available to the player. but still, it doesn't give a very good impression of the multitudes of strategies claimed to be in the full game. it's also possible some possibilities just didn't occur to me.

i think i'm going to play it again.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The demo is an edited version of the beginning. Apparently you're given access to weapons and powers, and I'm assuming confined to narrow areas, to compress a lot of the experience into a short amount of time.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok yeah i'm gonna get moving on that whole xp thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
i think i'm going to play it again.


Agreed.

I wish we could unlock Hard mode like in the Stranglehold demo though. This seems like a game that would be so awesome in Hard mode. Not that it's a big issue, since the game is a week away.

Fighting Leadhead Splicers gives you that good firefight AI that people say is all over Halo (which I could never get into).
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey so is Bioshock going to have any kind of multiplayer? I'm just curious because I don't remember hearing anything about it but that seems to be a standard tack-on bullet point now a days (even if it doesn't belong).

Oh, yeah, my Xbox did not download the damn thing, so I just left it on last night. Hopefully I'll play it tonight.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is how to enable Hard Mode:

Quote:
To enable hard go to your gamer profile in the dashboard and then change your default game settings. Go to general, then change your difficulty to hard.

Start up the Bioshock Demo.

Hard should be highlighted when you have the option to select your difficulty. Make sure not to move the cursor or you will not be able to select hard again unless you hit B and then return.

Hit A.


Although I don't find the A.I. nearly that good. I'd say the opposite for me, with it being noticeable in Halo and being ho hum here.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryan wrote:
Although I don't find the A.I. nearly that good. I'd say the opposite for me, with it being noticeable in Halo and being ho hum here.

I remember the A.I. really standing out in Halo (which was honestly the largest reason I ended up buying the game), but it mostly does so because of the team/group dynamics of the game. Bioshock seems to be mostly a solitary experience so you shouldn't notice the AI (as opposed to noticing how bad the AI is... like the Darkness).
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, none of the lower level creatures you fight in the demo or all that engaging - they just kind of jump at you with a wrench. The damn flying cameras remind me of the similar units in Marathon, and both are equally grating (re: randomly scare the crap out of/kill me).
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is the verdict on Resistance: Fall of Man's AI?

So far, despite your teammates being fairly idiotic (but hey, they are all supposed to die right), I think it is pretty good. That being said, I don't play FPS games very often so I don't have much to compare it to.
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dhex
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ai is a sticky thing in games for a number of reasons, but for fps titles i think there are a few things that stand out:

1) not engaging in suicidal behavior as a standard tactic. in other words, only closing in when they have you surrounded or perhaps if they're otherwise trapped and have nothing to lose.

2) engaging in teamwork. not so much for friendly ai (though not killing each other is always appreciated) but for the enemy. do they take cover and try to flank you? do they change tactics based on what you're doing? (i.e. if you get to an embedded machine gun type weapon, do they head for some kind of cover or try to take you out?)

3) the accuracy scale and the difficulty scale should be related but not involve so much jumping - i.e. far cry is the worst in this particular score. the enemies go from being able to generally chase you around the island and shoot you if you're dumb to being superhuman snipers who can kill you from 5000ft away. (and that's not getting into the whole mutant thing)

that said i don't think halo's ai is really that impressive even on higher levels as far as fps games go. really good ai can be found in fear and to a lesser degree, stalker. stalker had a lot of wasted potential in this area, though sneaking past firefights was always interesting. sadly they become far stupider in most of the internal sections as opposed to on open ground.

fear, on the higher difficulty levels in particular, is downright ferocious. their ability to identify and take cover (and lay down suppressing fire) is a definite step forward. half life 2 has a fairly crappy ai but no one noticed because that's not really the focus of gameplay. same with deus ex and older titles, where ai was more about having enemies who didn't just advance on you a la doom.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Hey so is Bioshock going to have any kind of multiplayer? I'm just curious because I don't remember hearing anything about it but that seems to be a standard tack-on bullet point now a days (even if it doesn't belong).

I'm fairly certain they said there wouldn't be, for the reason you point out: It would be a tack-on.

I wouldn't expect A.I. to be a strong point in such a game, anyway, besides from the environmental habits. When they're not batshit insane, your enemies are tanks who could give a damn less if you emptied a shotgun into them. I just expect the characters to be credible in the sense that they'll explore the environment, or just stutter debilitatedly in a corner somewhere. I expect master strategists in games like Brother in Arms or the like. Half-Life 2 dodged the problem by being cinematically gripping and giving the enemies good waypoints (Used to impressive effect in Minerva: Metastasis, might I add). I just hope the freaks you encounter in Bioshock come off as mad as they should be, is all. From what footage of demo gameplay I'm seeing, it looks atmospheric enough in any case. Amazingly so, actually.

Perhaps A.I. isn't necessarily the most essential aspect of game development? It all depends on what you seek out to achieve, I suppose.

P.S. A PDF artbook has been released for free.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko: did you play The Darkness yet? If so, what are your comments on the AI in that?
Dracko wrote:
P.S. A PDF artbook has been released for free.

I'm downloading this now and will print it at work on a high color laser printer when everyone leaves! Is this available for sale though?

EDIT: I started to flip thought this then realized that ARGH! Spoilers. So I stopped. I'll print it out another day when I can actually look through it.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They warn you about the spoilers on the site. There doesn't seem to be any plans to publish it either. Not enough material, for one.

Just don't read the foreword. The rest is fine.

And no, I haven't played it yet, as I haven't the means to. I'm guessing the problem is along the lines of the level being so claustrophobic and the enemies not doing much more than standing there and shooting at you?
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
I'm downloading this now and will print it at work on a high color laser printer when everyone leaves! Is this available for sale though?


Nope, and from the initial comments made upon its release, it won't be. It'd cost a mint to print that bad boy out at a proper printers, or even a Kinko's. Still, swanky coffee table book.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so yeah xp seems to be working fine.

ryan, you still want a review of microsoft flight simulator? i will install it tomorrow.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhex wrote:
ryan, you still want a review of microsoft flight simulator? i will install it tomorrow.


yes, yes I do
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i played through the demo again. that would be the fourth time. and this time, i only used two medical kits. i did a lot of hacking and got a lot of things to fight for me. i was still only able to do that because of my foreknowledge of the areas, but still, it hopefully gives a better sense of what the final game will be like. i would like to play through the game, more for the setting than anything. it's too bad the rental place near me closed down a few weeks ago.

this next part is in spoiler text, though it's totally speculation. i think the identity of the protagonist is going to figure heavily into the late game story. he's not an "everyman", whatever that is. there's enough detail to indicate he has a past. (and his name appears to be "jack".) at the end of the demo, andrew ryan asks "who sent you?" the cia, the kgb? we're led to assume that the plane just happened to go down right on top of rapture, that jack's there by accident. what if he isn't? there's enough in that short scene we see aboard the plane to suggest that jack may have engineered the crash.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
i played through the demo again. that would be the fourth time. and this time, i only used two medical kits. i did a lot of hacking and got a lot of things to fight for me. i was still only able to do that because of my foreknowledge of the areas, but still, it hopefully gives a better sense of what the final game will be like. i would like to play through the game, more for the setting than anything. it's too bad the rental place near me closed down a few weeks ago.

this next part is in spoiler text, though it's totally speculation. i think the identity of the protagonist is going to figure heavily into the late game story. he's not an "everyman", whatever that is. there's enough detail to indicate he has a past. (and his name appears to be "jack".) at the end of the demo, andrew ryan asks "who sent you?" the cia, the kgb? we're led to assume that the plane just happened to go down right on top of rapture, that jack's there by accident. what if he isn't? there's enough in that short scene we see aboard the plane to suggest that jack may have engineered the crash.


also: mystery wrist tattoos!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The opening lines make me grin.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
And no, I haven't played it yet, as I haven't the means to. I'm guessing the problem is along the lines of the level being so claustrophobic and the enemies not doing much more than standing there and shooting at you?

No, there are lot of long range enemies who’s tactic is to hide behind stuff and bob out to shoot you occasionally. The hilarious thing is that if you go across the level to find them they don't bother to find new hiding spots, and they rarely even move out of their area. The close range enemies aren't bad because they are set up with (transparent) routines. Either way, the game stops being challenging the moment you gain your dark powers.

So I played the Bioshock demo. For a demo it was pretty much the perfect length and contained all the right elements that I was looking for: oppressive environment, crazy mutated things, art deco, diaries/logs, and action. And from what I can tell the writing was pretty much perfect. Since Odin Sphere came out I’ve been expecting Bioshock to be a disappointment (OS being the only other game for a while that I followed closely for at least a year before release), but it wasn’t at all.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NO GODS NOR KINGS.
ONLY MAN.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IS A MAN NOT ENTITLED THE SWEAT UPON HIS BROW?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i liked that one video with the poster that had "BEAUTY IS A MORAL IMPERATIVE" written across it.

though i must admit i will be quite sad if this thing ends with some sort of collectivist moral.

Sad
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Judging by Ken Levine's general philosophy, I seriously doubt it, and I also doubt he'll betray any Randian Objectivist notions the game blatantly inspires itself on. I don't get the impression he's criticising the idea as the reason Rapture falls into bloody chaos, for instance. Scroll down and read the letters between him and OP here. The man is far from idiotic and has already demonstrated in previous games that he doesn't lean into facile characters or ideas.

This Eurogamer interview is also telling, though some of the questions are beyond idiotic - I'm thinking particularly the third one about science.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I enjoyed the demo I couldn't help feeling that the shooting bits got in the way of the creepy atmosphere / discovery storytelling. I also felt this way about prey. I don't really know how to combat this as I guess the threat of death is what keeps the atmosphere as it is?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Toys R Us has broken the street date. Since I'm in Baton 'We Hate Toys' Rouge (going to take a moment to bask in my cleverness), I can't grab a copy. BOOOO!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

man dracko's an objectivist in disguise.

"call me galt! call me galt! what's my name dagny?!?"

edit:

Quote:
My own leanings trend libertarian, though for some reason (perhaps you can explain this to me), Rand had nothing but contempt for libertarians. Perhaps it's akin to the way I feel about people who like Genesis after Peter Gabriel and Steve Hackett left the band.


wow that's not a bad facile analogy at all. that's worth stealing.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryan wrote:
Apparently Toys R Us has broken the street date. Since I'm in Baton 'We Hate Toys' Rouge (going to take a moment to bask in my cleverness), I can't grab a copy. BOOOO!!!

Hey, are you living in Baton Rouge now?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Hey, are you living in Baton Rouge now?


Na, I kinda have been for the past year though. I spend my time here (girlfriend's) and head back home for class. We're moving in together back in Lake Charles though, in a few weeks. I think we'll end up in Lafayette in about 2 years, once we finish getting our degrees (MBA for me, Master of Library Science for her).


Will you be coming back down here?
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I really liked this demo and I will get the full game.

It reminded me of Dr. Who for some reason.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, just played through the demo. This looks fantastic. With the odds being against my having put together a PC capable of playing it by the time it's released, I'll probably pick up the 360 version.

How good was it? I'm getting jitters because the release date isn't until next week.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

played through the demo a fifth time. this time the big battle went really easily; i hacked the camera to send robots after my enemies, whom i electrocuted once they reached the central pool.

i think this was only possible since i knew the layout of the place and the positions of the enemies. i don't feel like the game actually gives me a lot of room to think on my feet, which is problematic when the game advertises that i'll be able to "use anything as a weapon!"

i need to find somewhere to rent the full game from.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
played through the demo a fifth time. this time the big battle went really easily; i hacked the camera to send robots after my enemies, whom i electrocuted once they reached the central pool.

i think this was only possible since i knew the layout of the place and the positions of the enemies. i don't feel like the game actually gives me a lot of room to think on my feet, which is problematic when the game advertises that i'll be able to "use anything as a weapon!"

i need to find somewhere to rent the full game from.


I don't know if I had an advantage since I've been reading almost everything I could find about the game, but this what I did the first time I played the demo--while the flaming turret chewed me up something fierce, I have yet to die in the demo. (Gonna try it on hard in the next couple days.) It seems pretty easy if you take a very slow, incremental approach to exploration.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intentionally Wrong wrote:
It seems pretty easy if you take a very slow, incremental approach to exploration.


That's the way System Shock and System Shock 2 both were (with some obvious encounters aside - Diego, for example). If you take your time, and are pretty careful there's not much difficulty to it.

It-He has examples of how to have some serious fun playing through games backwards (or wrong, or just generally inappropriately). System Shock 2 is a pretty hard nut to crack in that vein, though, and I imagine Bioshock may be even harder. Though, with there being as much you can do in it... could be some options.[/url]
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Cycle
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I played the PC demo! It runs at an acceptable quality, but I think I'll buy the 360 version so I can have the full experience and then I'll just pirate the PC version should there any sweet mods. It's win, win! Also I'm going to get the collectors edition because I'm a consumerist whore.

The demo didn't really show much, apart from a great atmosphere and possibilities. I think it's going to be swell. Looking forward to it.
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dhex
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it's preloaded offa steam and sitting at home. it is fittingly raining cats and dogs here in the city.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it is a dreary overcast day here in St. Louis. I received a call from EB-fake-woman-in-Texas informing me that my LE of Bioshock would be waiting for me when the store opens today... and I'm stuck at work ;_;
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Lestrade
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's overcast here as well! I don't know when I'm getting this game; I don't have the money right now. :-(

I showed the demo to some friends on the weekend and they both were spouting gleeful obscenities within seconds. As soon as I was in the water, they freaked out. My favourite part is still the reveal of Rapture; I don't think that'll ever get old.

Now, how am I going to swing this? I have a feeling I won't be getting much extra-curricular work done between now and October...
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SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just picked mine up! And... The figurine's broken Sad

BUT!...

It's still almost worth the extra $10 for the other stuff they throw in alone. There's a making of DVD and a Moby Music CD, and some really nice packaging. Anyway, I called the GameStop dude when I realized it was broken and asked him if they had any I could swap it with. He told me there's a site I could go to for a replacement, so I went here and saw that if you have a busted figure you can send it back to get a replacement and a free art book. I'm almost glad I got a broken figure now! Woo!

Now I just need to hurry up and get off of work...

-Wes
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Dracko
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like you couldn't break a figurine yourself just for the art book.

So, how many tracks are there on the EP? How long is it?
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Just picked mine up! And... The figurine's broken Sad

Please take pictures so I can see where to break mine if it's not broken.
Dracko wrote:
So, how many tracks are there on the EP? How long is it?

Three tracks.
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