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Lestrade
Bug Fister
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Toronto
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 Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:50 pm Post subject: Metal Gear Solid 4: Writhing Butts in Kandahar |
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I figured, as per our RE5 thread, we could use an official dumping ground for MGS4, as there are months and months to go in which to speculate, bitch and whine, or froth for what I hope will be the last game in the series.
I just watched the real-time demo last night, and I have to say... I'm actually a bit disappointed. I'm not sure what it was, but to my eyes I saw such a disparity between the original holy-fuck trailer to this real-time demo that I felt a bit cheated. I know that's silly; the game still looks good. But the animations looked pretty stiff, and the enemy soldiers still move like they did in MGS2. I guess we have a long way to go as far as AI is concerned.
The Octo-Cam is pretty terrific, though the inclusion of what seems like a last-minute band-aid—the tedious Camouflage menu—made me grit my teeth. God, I hated how half of MGS3's game play was entering and exiting status screen menus.
I'm glad they've dropped a lot of the stupid conventions—the limiting camera, for instance—and apparently the control will be easier. That's especially good, as having to claw-grip two or three buttons while being mindful of pressure-sensitive triggers was just ridiculous. I hope crouching and laying down aren't the maddening exercises they were in MGS1–3. One thing I'm glad of though, is that Kojima has got off his high horse a little bit and is willing to brave accusations of Metal Gears of War and give us context-sensitive manoevres that eliminate the need for yet more line items and control diagrams in the game's manual.
However, even if the controls are simplified, I'm a little concerned that the game—now a complete metaphor for the do-all PS3 itself—is still overly complicated. There's a third-person view, an RE4 view, an FPS view (good luck beating the game that way, no matter what Kojima says), a Metal Gear MkII view; holy crap! I get the impression that features like this are being added to patch up problems, not improve the game. That FPS mode looks really stiff and hard to use, especially.
And the barrels look somehow even more ridiculous, if only because the rest of the game is so realistic-looking.
What are your thoughts? I love the MGS series but as in all past games, this feels too much like the usual spineless Kojima situation, where he bends and bends to please his rabid fans. Is MGS4 going to be one game too many or the second coming?
Last edited by Lestrade on Mon Jul 30, 2007 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: MGS4: Writhing Butts in Kandahar |
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| Lestrade wrote: | | this feels too much like the usual spineless Kojima situation, where he bends and bends to please his rabid fans. |
were you as grossed out by the porn rag as i was?
the game looks really boring. there's nothing in the demo video that looks particularly different from metal gear solid 3. the graphics certainly don't seem like any kind of leap over what the ps2 is capable of. i'm not sure why this game needs to be made, or why it needs to be exclusive to a ps3, other than to sell ps3s.
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: MGS4: Writhing Butts in Kandahar |
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| dessgeega wrote: | were you as grossed out by the porn rag as i was?
the game looks really boring. there's nothing in the demo video that looks particularly different from metal gear solid 3. the graphics certainly don't seem like any kind of leap over what the ps2 is capable of. i'm not sure why this game needs to be made, or why it needs to be exclusive to a ps3, other than to sell ps3s. |
it was a bit much but i'll chalk it up to lol kojima for now.
i can see where you're coming from regarding the gameplay being similar looking, but we'll have to judge the game based on the amount of scripting, something that is not apparent in a single gameplay video. if the experience is as dynamic as kojima is claiming, mgs4 can justify its existence and its use of the ps3. i'm not sure if it's going to pan out; hl2 ended up being far more scripted than planned, for example, but i am welcoming toward games that are attempting to use this generation's power for more than graphics and ragdoll physics. not to say that i have a problem with carefully designed and scripted set-pieces in games or that the dynamic simulation is the direction in which games should go.
| Lestrade wrote: | | this feels too much like the usual spineless Kojima situation, where he bends and bends to please his rabid fans. Is MGS4 going to be one game too many or the second coming? |
Aside from having a coherent plot in MGS3, how much has he bent to please his fans? To this point he's had clear themes and gameplay directives driving the design of each game. The sequels fit the MGS archetype but I think it's awfully cynical to call them MGS1 remakes or fan-service. |
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Lestrade
Bug Fister
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: MGS4: Writhing Butts in Kandahar |
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| dongle wrote: | | Lestrade wrote: | | this feels too much like the usual spineless Kojima situation, where he bends and bends to please his rabid fans. Is MGS4 going to be one game too many or the second coming? |
Aside from having a coherent plot in MGS3, how much has he bent to please his fans? To this point he's had clear themes and gameplay directives driving the design of each game. The sequels fit the MGS archetype but I think it's awfully cynical to call them MGS1 remakes or fan-service. |
Sorry, I don't think I was very clear. By that I meant that Kojima never seemed to want to make MGS sequels in the first place, and kept threatening to quit, but after receiving death threats (and much executive prodding, I'm sure), he just keeps cranking them out. As much as I like MGS in a way, it feels like a much safer sequel and not entirely necessary. I felt that MGS 1 and 2 were pretty bold, and the series has returned to a less interesting place, because even though Kojima swears he won't make another, he doesn't seem to have the gumption to really stop.
MGS4 by all accounts is Kojima throwing his hands in the air and saying, "All right, here's your sequel—the last one this time." I really hope Snake dies, just because it would seem like a real cop-out to have a "good ending" tacked on there, you know? To leave it open? |
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: MGS4: Writhing Butts in Kandahar |
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| Lestrade wrote: | | MGS4 by all accounts is Kojima throwing his hands in the air and saying, "All right, here's your sequel—the last one this time." I really hope Snake dies, just because it would seem like a real cop-out to have a "good ending" tacked on there, you know? To leave it open? |
Well, he's said that MGS4 is the end of the Snake story-line. He also never said that he'd no longer make Metal Gear titles; instead he stated that he wouldn't be the producer of them any longer unless he had a particular vision he wanted to see executed in his way (at least that's how it's been retconned). Given that MGS3 looked pretty boring (remember the E3 03 trailer?) and it turned out to be BY FAR the most fun MGS game while retaining some of the 4th-wall breaking and post-modernism, well, I'm pretty sure he's not just dumping out MGS4. I could be wrong, and I'm going to reserve judgment until I've played it myself, but we've seen so little of the game (Ryan Payton hinted that we can almost think of the Middle East scenario as the Tanker in MGS2) and all the promises that it follows more in the vein of MGS2 than other installments stylistically gives me faith that this isn't going to be a waste. And even though we've seen that Kojima has no problem milking the Metal Gear series with spinoffs and such, he's also made it clear which games are his through the naming conventions. And this isn't Metal Gear Solid: Phantom Babylon.
Since we're bitching about next-gen sequels, I'm expecting more from MGS4 than from RE5 which looks like RE4 with a new skin (pun semi-intended). [Not to say that I'm not anticipating RE5 but I have different expectations for that game]
I'm normally not at all defensive of games but we're perhaps getting into an era where we can't judge certain types of games based on trailers nearly as well as we used to. This and Bioshock could turn out to be garbage, but I'm hoping that the intended subtleties of these games will put some diversity in the increasingly homogenous 'BIG BUDGET TITLE'. |
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:10 am Post subject: |
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| I'm going to be completely reductionist here, and just point out that the Metal Gear Solid games aren't really all that much fun to play, so I'm not excited about this title. |
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:59 am Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | I'm going to be completely reductionist here, and just point out that the Metal Gear Solid games aren't really all that much fun to play, so I'm not excited about this title. |
You don't even like three? I can understand not liking 1 and 2 but I thought that actually being fun (well, aside from all the menus :/) was 3's big development |
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Cycle
Mac daddy
Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 2767
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: |
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The first MGS was a fun rollercoaster ride, I found MGS3 to be boring as hell, though. I only hired it and can't get remember where I stopped playing (around half-way) but it failed to impress me. I never played the second game.
The GBC game is pretty neato!
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: bohan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:06 am Post subject: |
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yeah, i like the gbc game more than the "solid" titles.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:24 am Post subject: |
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So, like, initially I was disapointed because the demonstration seemed to kind of suck the soul out of the game ("hey, here's all that wacky stuff MGS is famous for... in HD! Lol!") then I watched the MGS2 demonstration on the Documents of MGS2 ... game disc? thing. Anyways, that was actually more souless, and that game turned out great. So I'm at the point of just not caring about anything until the game actually comes out at this point. Also, the PS3 downloadable trailer made the game look worse than I expected it too (graphically), so I'm just tired of being let down at this point and will just get the game when it comes out.
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parkbench
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Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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i was also pretty underwhelmed by the video, and the...completely plastic look of the PMCs.
| Quote: | | The Octo-Cam is pretty terrific, though the inclusion of what seems like a last-minute band-aid—the tedious Camouflage menu—made me grit my teeth. God, I hated how half of MGS3's game play was entering and exiting status screen menus. |
yeah, wouldn't you think they'd incorporate some kind of quick menu a la the item/weapon menus?
| Quote: | | And the barrels look somehow even more ridiculous, if only because the rest of the game is so realistic-looking. |
what about those fucking flying creature things? and metal gear mk 2? just looks silly. and then, oh boy, DRAGONBALL Z fight between vamp and raiden.
and i'm still going to play the game. i hate myself.
| Quote: | | Sorry, I don't think I was very clear. By that I meant that Kojima never seemed to want to make MGS sequels in the first place, and kept threatening to quit, but after receiving death threats (and much executive prodding, I'm sure), he just keeps cranking them out. As much as I like MGS in a way, it feels like a much safer sequel and not entirely necessary. I felt that MGS 1 and 2 were pretty bold, and the series has returned to a less interesting place, because even though Kojima swears he won't make another, he doesn't seem to have the gumption to really stop. |
qft. i feel the same way. i feel bad for him, actually. there's probably nothing worst from an artist's perspective than to be condemned to what is essentially the same work forever.
i am taking solace in all you guys are saying about "well 2 and 3 looked bad, but..." for now. that is all i have to cling to.
i have also downloaded the mgs gbc rom, so. i will get to that. |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Those flying "creatures" are drones. Their design makes perfect sense considering the previous mecha designs established in the series, including the new Metal Gears featured in this game.
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Adilegian
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Joined: 28 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Lestrade wrote: | | to my eyes I saw such a disparity between the original holy-fuck trailer to this real-time demo that I felt a bit cheated. |
This is one of the unfortunate side-effects when you make a pre-release trailer that's able devote the whole hardware to cinematic sequences. I mean, while the holy-fuck trailer wasn't an FMV, it seems like it practically was since the trailer didn't show how factoring in all the gameplay processes would impact the visuals.
| dessgeega wrote: | | were you as grossed out by the porn rag as i was? |
Well, to be fair, it wasn't porn—just a model mag. Aside from that, though, I agree with you. It was amusing to see guards in MGS2 (and after) shirk their duties to gawk at a swimsuit model, but it's kind of insulting to think that I, as the player, want to look through the magazine myself. But this (I think) is a smaller problem compared to the fact that it alienates female players by turning women into objects for straight men. Hell, I'd like to see Kojima make games that prove that, at 40 years old, he's outgrown the fascination with voyeurism.
There's also a cultural gap here, too, and this part of the Japanese otaku subculture annoys the piss out of my almost every time I see it.
| dessgeega wrote: | | the game looks really boring. there's nothing in the demo video that looks particularly different from metal gear solid 3. the graphics certainly don't seem like any kind of leap over what the ps2 is capable of. |
I disagree on all points, here. I think it looks like a lot of fun.
The demo simply showed combat without any kind of narrative context—in other words, it showed no motivations within the narrative (they tactfully snipped out most of the cutscene) and Kojima didn't offer any explanation for his decision to help the militia guys other than, "Looks like they could use a hand."
The combat system looks much, much more refined than MGS3's. It looks like they used MGS3's CQC system as a starting point to allow more versatile actions. In other words, you've got the same basic ways to "catch" a guard—either via holdup or by grabbing—and you have a greater variety of ways to deal with him lethally or non-lethally.
The ability to crouch-run looks like a much-needed development for the way that actor movement was implemented in MGS3, too. Stalking was really slow, and walking/running was too loud, and God forbid you need to move past a low wall without crawling. So that's going to change the way people interact with the levels and decide how to handle a variety of challenges.
I don't see how any scene from the gameplay demo could be mistaken for a PS2 game.
And, as Shaper's already written, the gameplay demos for MGS2 looked considerably less remarkable than the final game turned out. Shoot, take a look at the MGS3 gameplay demos—back when they had simply created a forest environment using MGS2's engine. Pre-release gameplay demos in the MGS franchise tend to show just a little of the sequel's innovations upon the previous installment's gameplay, and I think that's what we're seeing here, too.
| dessgeega wrote: | | why it needs to be exclusive to a ps3, other than to sell ps3s. |
I remember reading somewhere that the PS3 was capable of manipulating textures in ways that can't be done on the 360. The studio really seems to like to tailor games to the specific strengths of a given console (hence MPO belonging solely to the PSP instead of getting ported), so it's not like they're working from a basic development template that can get transferred by corporate whim over to another console.
I've read that Capcom takes that route, incidentally, which makes it easier for them to port previously PS3-exclusive titles over to the 360. That's a good development strategy if you want to make games that generally meet the waterline of quality that both systems share, but, like I wrote earlier, Kojima's studio seems to want to dig deep into a given system and make the best possible game for that system.
| parkbench wrote: | | what about those fucking flying creature things? |
They remind me of the weird salient wings in James Blish's short story "How Beautiful with Banners."
| parkbench wrote: | | yeah, wouldn't you think they'd incorporate some kind of quick menu a la the item/weapon menus? |
It looks like most of the costume changes will happen in-game, particularly with the octo-cam. I think I read somewhere that the octocam stores a given texture/pattern in its memory. You shake the sixaxis to reset the suit to its regular texture, and you can recall that remembered texture somehow. The main thing that they changed at the menu was the facemask, which (all things considered with the HUD) might be the least awkward way to implement that.
Judging from the video, camouflage won't play as big a role in MGS4 as it did in MGS3. It's obviously going to be useful moving through patrolled areas (like the beginning of the gameplay demo showed), but it's not going to help a whole lot in areas that are under siege. I noticed that the demo showed Snake taking advantage of the van's destruction to get past the PMC guys, which suggests that that might be part of the "psychological warfare element." E.G., something happens to distract the guys you want to get past, so you run past when their attention's diverted.
I'm pretty excited about this game. |
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ryan
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 999
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| Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Adilegian wrote: | Hell, I'd like to see Kojima make games that prove that, at 40 years old, he's outgrown the fascination with voyeurism.
There's also a cultural gap here, too, and this part of the Japanese otaku subculture annoys the piss out of my almost every time I see it. |
In the second MGS card game for the PSP, the unlockables include videos of women in bikinis near pools, walking out of outdoor showers, loading guns, looking at knives, and doing things that are borderline creepy. Those clips also use the cardboard 3D thing that came with the game. I was more surprised by those than anything before or since.
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:47 am Post subject: |
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| ryan wrote: | | In the second MGS card game for the PSP, the unlockables include videos of women in bikinis near pools, walking out of outdoor showers, loading guns, looking at knives, and doing things that are borderline creepy. Those clips also use the cardboard 3D thing that came with the game. I was more surprised by those than anything before or since. |
That was shocking because it was outside of the context of the gameworld. The mags in MGS4 are offensive, yes, but there's something at least a little bit absurdly funny about men looking at models on the battlefield. Lysistrata was founded on the idea that men would place the need to satisfy their sex drive above the multitude of emotional and logical forces driving the Peloponnesian War. This is, perhaps, tongue-in-cheek commentary that also implicates the player.
OK fine I'm really reaching here. |
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| dongle wrote: | | Harveyjames wrote: | | I'm going to be completely reductionist here, and just point out that the Metal Gear Solid games aren't really all that much fun to play, so I'm not excited about this title. |
You don't even like three? I can understand not liking 1 and 2 but I thought that actually being fun (well, aside from all the menus :/) was 3's big development |
I especially didn't like 3!
They are just dumb :/ |
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ryan
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Joined: 20 Feb 2005
Posts: 999
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| dongle wrote: | That was shocking because it was outside of the context of the gameworld. The mags in MGS4 are offensive, yes, but there's something at least a little bit absurdly funny about men looking at models on the battlefield. Lysistrata was founded on the idea that men would place the need to satisfy their sex drive above the multitude of emotional and logical forces driving the Peloponnesian War. This is, perhaps, tongue-in-cheek commentary that also implicates the player.
OK fine I'm really reaching here. |
Oh, I'm not really debating anything, context or otherwise, that was just an account from my limited MG experience that kinda fit into the conversation is all. Peloponnesian War references are always fine by me.
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Isfet
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Joined: 27 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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i'm not sure if it's the result of the games looking less appealing or if it's just because i've been getting older, but i've anticipated each MGS game just a little bit less as it goes on.
there just doesn't seem to be much going on in this footage that seems like it's really worthwhile. i feel like most of Kojima's games had a specific feel to them that hasn't been in anything he's made since MGS2. it was a sort of hands-on touch that made the game world just more interesting. i'm not getting any of that from what i've seen of MGS4.
now, i would like to play the game and see how the story and gameplay pan out, but i don't think i'd buy a PS3 to do so. |
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FortNinety
Pheonix Wright
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 250
Location: NY, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I'm the only one that liked the demo then?
I dunno... I don't consider myself the biggest MGS fan, but something about the demo really impressed me. Despite that many of the series short-comings and lapses in logic are really glaring at this point, like the limited field of vision of the enemies.
But it has this grandiose, everything is happening at once sensation that I really like. Though I know its hardly original... there have been plenty of games with a dynamic structure that whisks you away to adventure.
Though the main reason why I like MGS and not any other military themed action game is that I can enjoy the general action and tone and not get too mired down by the small stuff, which is something military nuts live for. So I'm hoping the same here again, but again, lots of stuff going on, but without the headache or pressures from other titles. Does that make sense? Apologizes if it doesn't. |
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Lestrade
Bug Fister
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:21 am Post subject: |
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Wow.
You know what Konami needs? They need an English translator with balls—balls enough to tell Kojima that his patented technique of looking up names in his English-Japanese dictionary verbatim is getting stupid.
I mean, the new boss characters; "beautiful women" emo-tastically transformed (in that oh-so-subtle, not-melodramatic Japanese way) by the horrors of war into Doctor Octopus, are certainly striking from a visual standpoint. But aside from the fact that Japanese creators need to really reach beyond one-dimensional "themes" like—Christ—"Beauty and the Beast", they need to hold some of these ideas up to people who don't suck their dicks for a living and ask, "Hey, I don't know; is this stupid?"
Let's go through these, shall we?
Well, she doesn't scream, and you already used Mantis (on a hovering psychic, no less) before, and it's stupid-sounding.
Of course! That makes perfect sense. Wait a minute, no; it's stupid. Also, listening to "her" spout out classic one-liners like, "Isn't it funny!?"—well, it's enough to eat a man's soul.
Oh. My. FUCK. As if the ridiculous refrains of "THE PAIN!!!" from MGS3 weren't bad enough, now we have a (bitchin'-lookin') hang-glider tearing around shouting, for no apparent reason, "RAGE!!!!" No wonder "Laughing Octopus" can't stop giggling.
After seeing the names for some of the other Beauties, I watched the trailer and kept hearing emo-licious sobbing. "Oh let me guess," I said to no one in particular. "That's fucking Crying Wolf." And lo and behold, it is! You have to be shitting me. Crying Wolf?
Now, before anyone bashes me for not understand the deep, deep intricacies of Kojima's genius soul, let me spell out MGS4's deal right here: the Beauties are all casualties of war, as ol' Hiddy already said. Of course, throughout the game it will be revealed that each Beauty represents an emotion adversely affected by war; either it's the only emotion this women-machines still feel, or the one they wish they could feel the most. (Japanese fiction like this only ever seems to deal in absolutes. Hence the glorious subtlety.)
Snake will either go through all of these emotions in due time—probably in a thematically-relevant order—until he, too, realises all he's lost through his many years of war. Then he'll either shoot himself, or almost-shoot himself, and there'll be something stupid at the end that will make you think of that shitty movie Casshern, and then some terrible ending theme will commence, and probably after the credits, there'll be a secret phone call between two parties.
Well, I just saved a bunch of us $600 or $700! |
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sediment
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 428
Location: SUPERPOWER GEORGIALAND
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:10 am Post subject: |
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The names sound dumb, but I get the feeling that these are those characters from MGS1 resurrected in some way. Note Screaming Mantis is floating, and we never really got to see what Decoy Octopus would've been like in a fight. Raging Raven appears to be carrying machine guns, and Crying Wolf has a bigass rifle on its back.
I haven't seen any newer trailers than the "holy fuck" trailer, but even so I'm still leaning towards giving MGS4 a spin. I really liked 2 and 3, even despite certain codec conversations (ROSE) and Eva in general. So, worth a shot.
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FortNinety
Pheonix Wright
Joined: 19 Oct 2006
Posts: 250
Location: NY, NY
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sorry, but Revolver Ocelot and Sniper Wolf has always been cornball and stupid since day one, so this is hardly any different in my book. |
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sediment
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Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 428
Location: SUPERPOWER GEORGIALAND
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, but I find them endearing (in a cornball and stupid way).
So I figure, either these four are going to evoke that endearing-yet-dorky sort of vibe, or be The Pain slash Fatman.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| FortNinety wrote: | | I'm sorry, but Revolver Ocelot and Sniper Wolf has always been cornball and stupid since day one, so this is hardly any different in my book. |
Yeah, pretty much.
With that said, I don't think that bringing back names from the first game is a coincidence.
ALSO, this newest trailer with all the bosses is the first one that has me excited about the game again since the first one came out.
So, in conclusion, Kojima can name these guys what ever the hell he wants. The Fear!
_________________
“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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This looks like total bullshit and kills any good impressions I had towards this game.
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silentmatt
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 305
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Well, considering the main bad-guy (at least according to one trailer I saw) is none other than LIQUID SNAKE - it looks like we're revisiting MGS all over again with this rogues gallery.
Which, while they do look bizarre, I'm still looking forward to it!
Although, that trailer... it looks like the absolute least MGS game ever. That trailer could have been Resistance 2 or some FPS type thing.
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"Jadis, si je me souviens bien, ma vie était un festin où s'ouvraient tous les coeurs, où tous les vins coulaient." |
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: |
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This is pretty funny. It looks a bit like a very realistic film clip I watched once of a bipedal human robot running around what looked like actual footage of war-torn Cambodia, or somewhere like that. I wouldn't be suprised if it had inspired this, because it's a similar aesthetic, except with a slightly bigger dollop of Yu-Gi-Oh!-style manga lunacy.
Hey, there are machine-gun equipped robots patrolling Iraq right now, so this isn't so crazy. Get with the times, guys! |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | Hey, there are machine-gun equipped robots patrolling Iraq right now, so this isn't so crazy. Get with the times, guys! |
There's a radical difference between drones controlled via 360 controllers and cybernetic retards with tentacles.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I know I'm crazy, but I love the assanine and insane enemies of MGS. I was worried that they would be too "normal" after the last trailer. MGS2 is still one of my favorite games, and wouldn't be so w/o all the really messed up bosses.
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-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Lestrade
Bug Fister
Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 1760
Location: Toronto
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:36 am Post subject: |
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It's weird, because the utterly ridiculous bosses here don't bother me; they are striking and just fucked-up looking (in a very good way). The great intimate camera work in the trailer helps sell the idea of these bizarre and frightening creatures.
It's just the oh-so-Japanese Themes™ impressed upon them, as well as the silly straight-out-of-screenplay-writing-school Character Traits (and the stupid names) to which I object. You can't appreciate them on your own terms because you getting someone's Grade Nine "vision" thrown at you as well. |
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dark steve
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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 1110
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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The fingertips on Raven's wings look sort of cool.
Although yeah, ew. Verbs ruin everything, I guess.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Dracko wrote: | | Harveyjames wrote: | | Hey, there are machine-gun equipped robots patrolling Iraq right now, so this isn't so crazy. Get with the times, guys! |
There's a radical difference between drones controlled via 360 controllers and cybernetic retards with tentacles. |
For real? They are controlled by 360 controllers? You are fucking with me.
Lestrade, I think you're expecting too much from the Metal Gear Solid series. It's always been overwrought pantomime silliness. The End, The Fear and The Pain? Revolver fucking Ocelot? Even Volgin wears bright red rubber gloves. It's like a filmed version of an Osamu Tezuka comic, interspersed with hour long lectures about things like 'the concept of Battlefield'. Adding a bunch of Doctor Octopusses actually makes the pill easier to swallow- you think 'well, at least he isn't taking this seriously'.
Also can I just add that Sniper Wolf in MGS1 the worst fucking Sniper in the world. After hearing how she will stay for months in one place waiting for the perfect shot, when you actually fight her she just legs it around a snowfield in plain sight stopping to take pot-shots at you from behind a tree. I walked up to her and beat the shit out of her. |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | For real? They are controlled by 360 controllers? You are fucking with me. |
Nope.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| That's the most fucked up thing I've ever seen. |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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Don't you want your game consoles to be military-industrial complex approved?
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 996
Location: Super Magic Drive
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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Kojima definitely must not want to do MGS games anymore since it looks like he's putting everything in the game that will make MGS fanboys crack so many fats they will be too preoccupied to whine about it.
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Winged Assassins (1984) wrote: | | crack so many fats |
this is a great phrase.
i am fully expecting this to be the fall out of the metal gear solid series.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I looked at that and I don't know what it means. Fatwas? |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: bohan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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i think it's about boners.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I get it now. |
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| i'm starting to be sorry that i defended the game earlier. unless these trailers are really misleading, this is starting to become a game i'd be embarrassed to be caught playing between the non-sexual fanservice and loldongs and lolboobs. |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: bohan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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so one of the marionettes in mantis's hands is clearly of psycho mantis. who's the other?
this marks the second boss in the metal gear series to fight with marionettes, by the way.
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silentmatt
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 305
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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You are counting ACiD2?
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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I think she meant Ghost Babel. Though the Ac!d series is by the same designer.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| Harveyjames wrote: | | Lestrade, I think you're expecting too much from the Metal Gear Solid series. It's always been overwrought pantomime silliness. The End, The Fear and The Pain? Revolver fucking Ocelot? Even Volgin wears bright red rubber gloves. It's like a filmed version of an Osamu Tezuka comic, interspersed with hour long lectures about things like 'the concept of Battlefield'. Adding a bunch of Doctor Octopusses actually makes the pill easier to swallow- you think 'well, at least he isn't taking this seriously'. |
Yes, exactly. I thought that he was taking MGS4 way too seriously based on the last demo and the trailer right before that. I like the new developments.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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showka
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Joined: 11 Nov 2005
Posts: 70
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| Posted: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Lestrade wrote: | | You know what Konami needs? They need an English translator with balls—balls enough to tell Kojima that his patented technique of looking up names in his English-Japanese dictionary verbatim is getting stupid.! |
He had one during MGS1 and then let him go for reasons unknown. |
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Adilegian
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Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Sat Aug 25, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| showka wrote: | | Lestrade wrote: | | You know what Konami needs? They need an English translator with balls—balls enough to tell Kojima that his patented technique of looking up names in his English-Japanese dictionary verbatim is getting stupid.! |
He had one during MGS1 and then let him go for reasons unknown. |
When you're dealing with translation, there's only so far you can go with changing the text without trespassing on the meaning. Instead of complaining about the translators, you might more reasonably complain about the original writing itself.
Translators are half editors, yeah, but what half they're privy to editing is subject to the political and aesthetic jockeying done behind the scenes. Blaustein's given the fun illusion that there's some way to decode those decisions into transparancy, but it's just that: an illusion. |
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silentmatt
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 305
Location: Toronto, Ontario
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know how many of you read "The Last Days of FOXHOUND" (you all should), but I absolutely love Chris' newspost the other day, concerning the latest trailer.
You can find the newspost here: http://www.gigaville.com/index.php
The comic itself gets updated every Monday and Friday. It is classy shit.
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"Jadis, si je me souviens bien, ma vie était un festin où s'ouvraient tous les coeurs, où tous les vins coulaient." |
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| silentmatt wrote: | | You are counting ACiD2? |
there's a marionette boss in acid 2?
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Adilegian
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Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 41
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| dessgeega wrote: | | silentmatt wrote: | | You are counting ACiD2? |
there's a marionette boss in acid 2? |
I think the marionettes are just in AC!D, but they're not bosses, I think. It's been a while since I've played it, though. |
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