The Gamer's Quarter

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

One of the key differences between videogames and cinema is that in cinema there is never an option of what you want to look at, and in games there is always an option of what you want to see. Otherwise, you know, it's not a game.

But lately I've played a lot of games that feel like enclosed little boxes. Not many games feel big and open and huge. And games that are big and open and huge are very shallow experiences where everything is just how it is. It doesn't matter if you want to look at something up close in GTA. If it does, I've never found a use for it.

Right now I'm thinking of a few games: Mario 64, Outrun 2, Shadow of the Colossus? Each game is close to what I want, but not exactly. OR2 is maybe the closest of the games to what I want, but it's also the most obvious offender what with it being on a track and having a time limit. Shadow goes the opposite direction being completely free, but feeling limited by just how limited Wander is. Mario strikes a balance between the two, but I've already played that game to death.

Hmm...
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Fred · . Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 99 Location: Iowa

Mario 64 really was one of the best games for that sort of thing! I can't think of any other platformers that did the large-world thing that well. I've been trying to find a game like this myself lately, so I understand where you're coming from.

If you can stand jRPGs, Dragon Quest VIII did a good job of providing a huge playground to explore, so much so that advancing the plot became something of a hassle, really. Okami was rather the same way--"hey, here's mythohistoric Japan! Go out and play, but be back here by eight to fight this boss, okay?" But it was a beautiful and utterly engrossing mythohistoric Japan.

Legend of Mana had a unique system of doing this too, where even though the areas were all pretty much fixed internally, the world map starts out blank until you unlock and place new areas; the order and positions in which you place them--or not--determines which activities become available and which of the big cast of supporting characters you could get involved with--or not--while you go about the business of saving the world--or not. Ultimately the world system wound up not providing you with that many choices for plot and character development, but it provided a method of presentation that's really grown on me over time. I've been waiting for a game that builds on this flexible-world concept, but I haven't found one yet.

We might also talk about Star Command/Control/whatever, if that's not too cliche. There's a WWW-based game out there (I think) called Galactic Traders that captures sort of the same spirit of exploration, but replaces the action aspect with a political angle of facing off against other actual human beings. You start on Earth with a space freighter, and a rough star map of the galaxy; it's your job to go out, make money and hopefully stake out more turf than the other players. It's great fun if you can get together a group of casual players who just want to have fun with it, a sort of interplanetary form of Risk where you have to make up your own map of the board as it goes along. But all the public servers are dominated by hardcore math-heads who have optimized their play to the point where it takes months to get to the level of surviving, let alone competing.

There are some ideas, anyway. I hope that's sort of what you've been looking for.

dhex · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:03 am Post subject:

morrowind.
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GSL · Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject:

Ultima Underworlds I and II.

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Do Morrowind or the Ultima Underworlds games have interesting ways to travel? What I have always liked about Mario 64 is that there are interesting ways of getting from place to place. You can walk up stuff, you can triple jump to leap over obstacles, you can walljump, crawl, etc. I'm not a big fan of "cast Haste spell" and having "+25% Run/Walk". It just sems so... gamey and blah.

I'm the kind of guy who liked rolling around a lot in Zelda just because it was something to do. Well, until I had to hear Link's voice everytime. Making Wander kick Aggro to go faster, well, yea I did that too.
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

Is it wrong that I like Link's voice? I think the voice actor is perfectly cast. I like it when he shouts 'hey' at Aryll in Wind Waker, and I like his 'hup!', his 'shee-YAH!' and his 'AH-d-d-d-d-d-d!'s.

Tetra's Trackers is a joy. It's a Zelda game with full voice, people!

Mario 64 would blow me away with the unexpected ways in which areas linked into one another, like the Metal Cap Switch secret area spitting you out of the waterfall in the castle grounds, and the Dire, Dire Docks leading back to the ocean at the start of the game. It felt so coherent, you really got a sense that this was a real place that existed somewhere. Secret areas genuinely felt secret and exciting, like the game had swallowed you and you were creeping around in its belly. That's a feeling few games are able to provoke.

dhex · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:18 am Post subject:

player 2 · . Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 585 Location: Madison, WI USA

Does riding a horse feel like walking except faster? I really am interested in really varied ways of travel, not just sprite swaps and faster max speeds.
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Wii #: 8749 9109 9732 3653

"It is a peaceful way of understanding life, to play"
_Marcel Duchamp

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

Man, it was hilarious when that guy just fell out of the sky and died in front of you in Morrowind, and you find a bunch of long/high jumping spells on him.
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

dhex · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:33 am Post subject:

Scratchmonkey · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 1439

Flying in Morrowind is pretty sweet, it takes you a while to get to the point where you get the items to make it a viable form of transport though.

GSL · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:47 am Post subject:

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

That sounds great, but I've always shied away from the Ultima games because I assume they're 'landlord-a-flagon-of-your-finest-ale' charmless and dorky.

dessgeega · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject:

they're pretty dorky, but charmless? nay, lad, nay.
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Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

Ok, I'll try that out. Which is the best of the Ultima Underworld series?

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

Winged Assassins (1984) · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject:

That's part of the fun though.
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Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

Yes, that was what I was saying!
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GSL · Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject:

dessgeega · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:33 am Post subject:

big elfen playground.
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dhex · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 9:19 am Post subject:

the early ultimas are definitely dorky but they're also self-aware in a way that's almost irritating.
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Redeye · . Joined: 02 Oct 2006 Posts: 986 Location: filth

Intentionally Wrong · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:08 am Post subject:

I really thought Crackdown might satisfy the original poster's interest.

dessgeega · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 1:14 am Post subject:

you can't look at things up close in crackdown, though. the buildings, though they look like buildings, may as well be boxes. you can't explore them. they're full of doors that lead into tiny, dark, bricked-up rooms. this is fine for the game, which is really more about the sky than the ground, but i'm not sure it's what 2UP is looking for.
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helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

Okami is enormous and a lot of fun to explore.

It's not much of a playground. You can't do anything to the world other than run around it. Among adventure/exploration games, though, it has an unparalleled sense of altitude.
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