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the very thorough crawl thread
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you can't sell stuff in crawl, and the reason you can't sell stuff in crawl is because then people would feel compelled to spend lots of time gathering items and lugging them back to the store to sell them (clearing their inventory so they can go back out and gather more items to lug back to the store and sell, repeat forever). that's what happens in angband! this is one of those ways that crawl tries to be a better game than other roguelikes: the game is designed to minimize boring and tedious activity.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

brilliant
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that would have read better with a semicolon instead of a colon.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I finally had a breakthrough run. I thought for the longest time that I was a Xom man at heart, but it turns out that ... I'm not at all. I do like the Chaos Knight though, and have been working with Makhleb quite a bit. It takes a while to get use to praying so much but it's worth it. I also found the only way to play crawl:



I was also recently informed that if you press the dash button that you can mess with your avatar... and that was fantastic.

My last run I made it to the eighth level of the dungeon as a MiCK-07. It was my second best run ever.

Also, here is the easiest way to read the newsgroups. You can also post with you gmail account. Those guys are crazy. One guy earlier today had finally beat the game with every species and every job class... in thirty runs. There's some other, non-crawl, stuff in there too, but a majority of the news group is Crawl releated.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

who here's been using my name >:(

I've never played dungeon crawl before.

It certainly looks interesting, though!
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been trying to get the tiled version to compile on Mac OSX for the last hour. The first half hour was resolved by finding a typo in the makefile ;_;

I guess there was a OSX port in the works that is half done but appears to have been abandoned.

I am manually debugging errors I get by changing the source and adding status messages.

I hope this game is worth it, although it sounds like it from what everyone has said!

If this works, remind me to try to get sound working in the Windows version for you guys.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Success!



I even adding mappings for the movement keys to the arrow keys (they aren't by default in the X11 version).

But now I'm too tired to play it anymore tonight.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sawtooth wrote:
who here's been using my name >Sad

This isn't you?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nana, your accomplishment is great. i can't help noticing you're playing a human spellcaster, though!

i think a lot of people, when first confronted by the race menu, pick human because the amount of options is overwhelming and humans seem like the normative race. well, yes, they are. they can be any class because they're not particularly good at anything. i really don't recommend playing as a human.

if you want to pick a fighting class, try a dwarf or minotaur. if you want a magic-user, try an elf. if you want to try a more unusual race, try a troll - they're strong fighters but they need to eat much more often than most characters.

i highly suggest playing as a fighter at the beginning, by the way, and then moving into magic as you become more familiar with how the game plays. just don't play a human! it will be much easier for you.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't actually playing a human spellcaster, I was just picking things willy-nilly to see if the arrow keys were working correctly.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started a game as a minotaur berserker and was trapped alive by an ogre on level 1!
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, sometimes the rng likes to spite you.



that was one of my many failed efforts at playing a draconian monk. it's a hard character to play, but i wanted the challenge. draconians can't wear heavy armor, but monks do better in lighter armor, and monks specialize in unarmed combat - draconians get a free unarmed attack (tail whip).

it took me many tried, but i finally managed to reach draconian puberty and blossomed into a grey draconian.



i got killed soon after, unfortunately. i managed to get my armor class up to 7, which is none too shabby a feat.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

xom has a hilarious sense of humor.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, I had a good run today. I started off updating my character look:



On the right is the one that I made yesterday. He looks more like a viking than a MiCN, so I made the one on the right which looks more like a Chaos Knight and has horns for the minotaur.



Things were going decent until level 7 of the dungeon where I entered a very open octogon room and was then attacked to the point of being near death by many killer bees. Having already summoned a couple demons and still getting killed I needed to do something to put those demons between me and the bees, so at 12 hit points I used a potion of berserk rage. I managed to stay alive and put the demons between me with only 7 hit points left. After that I explored the first two levels of the Orc Mines ... which were dangerous.



I then went to the eighth level of the dungeon where it looked like 5 yaks were waiting for me. Again I put the summon demon between me and them, he took care of a few while I summoned some more backup in and finished off 8 freaking Yaks.



Later on in the dungeon I was getting attacked and teleported right next to a room which looked like it had some treasure in it, when I got close, sitting right in the blind spot was a Naga gaurdian! I took care of her then proceeded to spend way too much time trying to figure out what to cary and what to drop. I went on for two more levels only to be cast into the abyss by a Erolcha as a level 10 chaos knight and then got killed by a flail.

The worst part was that I had some really really good stuff on me that I just hadn't gotten the chance to identify yet. Had I received more than a total of three identify scrolls the whole game I could have made a vorpal weapon, invisibility ring, and a few other life saving scrolls and potions. But... no.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

man, nuts to bees.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Protip: Don't try summoning demons if you Int is very low.... you summon ones that don't like you. YASD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do people here prefer to fully explore each level or to go down once a set of stairs is found or to push one's luck only partly before heading down?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fully. levelling up is important, and you never know what you're going to find.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I clear out the whole thing, and depending on how small the first two or three levels are, I will use the s button a lot to check for hidden doors at the end of alleyways. In some of the later levels, if they seem too small, I will go up a floor and come down a different stair case because sometimes you get dropped into a new section that you couldn’t have otherwise reached. I do this both for experience and for items/weapons/armor.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, you guys roped me in to this title.

I must say that I am enjoying it immensely and I love that things make sense unlike the other more popular roguelikes (Nethack, etc) that are full of nonsensical things that would scare away a newbie.

I have to print out the commands and overlay them because I can't memorize all that, yet.

I'm such a graphics whore, since the availability of the tile set is what let me try this out. Also having it silent lets me rock the soundtrack to Diablo as I tour through the dungeons. It's nice!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pijaibros wrote:
I must say that I am enjoying it immensely and I love that things make sense unlike the other more popular roguelikes (Nethack, etc) that are full of nonsensical things that would scare away a newbie.

I had tried Nethack, and a few versions of it, about a half dozen times in the past. Every single time I was turned off by it. After one play of Crawl I was understanding nearly everything or it made sense shortly after an explination. It's also much, much more fair than Nethack is (which feels like it's out to kill you where crawl feels like it's there to stop you... if that analogy makes sense).

Quote:
I have to print out the commands and overlay them because I can't memorize all that, yet.
For as much as I bitched about how bloated the conrols seemed at first, I memorized 90% of them really quickly. I only don't know controls that I hardly use anymore.

Quote:
I'm such a graphics whore, since the availability of the tile set is what let me try this out. Also having it silent lets me rock the soundtrack to Diablo as I tour through the dungeons. It's nice!

It's funny to read the newsgroups and see people moan about anything other than the text version of the game. I mean, it's just a weird freaking complaint. Also, I recommend the God Hand OST as well. I would perhaps like to get a sound effects thing going in this game still, but it's way too complicated for me. If you want to look back some entries dess and I tried to make it work on the first page.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

screw sound effects, it's better with an mp3 player running in the background and some sweet dungeon crawling tunes.

pijabros, if you have ifranview or another smallish graphics program you can load up the table i made on the first page and flip back and forth to it as you play.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, the tile version of crawl is particularly good. the tiles aren't just one-to-one sprite-for-character substitutions (hi nethack), there's actually been an effort to compress more information into a graphic icon than you would get in text mode: you can see what weapon an enemy is wielding, and potions are tagged after you've identified them.

so, mummy death knights. it's easier to get the dead to trust you when you're one of them. mummies don't need to eat; since necromancy makes most races hungry, this is convenient. they can't drink either, though. mummies can't get poisoned or sick, so healing potions are unnecessary. potions of heal wounds are a bigger loss, though since mummies don't get hungry, there are less deterrents to resting until totally healed.

and i like to start with a spear, since a mummy follower of yredelemnul will never need to dissect a corpse. mummies are pretty hard to play regardless.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shaper: that google group is fucking nuts.

Quote:
Actually, I'm an ASCII man, but Tile Crawl has gameplay improvements
and actually makes use of the tiles to carry additional information.
The only drawback is that it just doesn't look as good as ASCII.


but i am learning a lot. though i can't seem to get past level seven or eight as i invariably get attacked by something fucking insane - it's almost like xom is my co-pilot.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xom is my carpool buddy!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think we can all agree that xom is an asshole.

http://crawl.proboards30.com/
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to believe.

Crawl crashes and dies whenever I descend to the second floor. I don't get it? I'm sure nobody else would ever think something this simple would be able to crash.

I was just getting into this game, too!
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you playing it on? Windows? Linux?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm playing this on a Windows machine at home.

The Linux machine at work seems to play fine (but I didn't get to spend any real time on it), so I'm confused.

Okay, I've noticed that this game likes to crash if I open up my inventory and use the mouse to highlight an item and then try to exit the screen. Usually when I descend to a new floor.

That's goofy.

Luckily the game saves once I descend, so this is downgraded from game breaking to annoyance.

Scratch that...those blinking imps now those guys are annoying! I can't kill one (being a fighter) and since they're all over the place curious ogres stop on over and have their way with me. Here I was thinking I would get a chance to choose a God to worship. I made it to Level 5 a very open ended circle!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

centaur hunters are great, and much more reasonable than the difficult classes i've been trying lately. they start with a bow, and the centaur's extra speed makes it easy to put distance between an enemy and yourself so to use that bow. find them a good melee weapon and they become pretty capable.


action shot!

my most recent one i equipped with a whip of venom and the +4 leather armor of plasticity. lighter armor was good because i taught her a few basic spells. most notably, she could raise skeletons.



later in this game i stepped into a room to encounter both sigmund and a jelly. i shot an arrow into sigmund, wounding him badly, then took a few steps back to fire on the jelly - which is when sigmund zapped me with a wand of paralysis. the jelly got lots of hits in, its acid rendering my +1 helmet useless. i shook off the paralysis with only a few hitpoints left and ran for the stairs.



upstairs i found a ghost of mine waiting for me at the end of a short hallway. i ran for the door and reached it just ahead of my ghost. i found a place to heal up, then went down and cleared out sigmund and the jelly (which had since reproduced).

i was killed by an unseen horror on an open level while running for the stairs. i had sped myself up, too. it wasn't enough.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaper asked me if I uploaded my OSX Tile Version anywhere and the short answer to that is "no, because it wouldn't work". I haven't tried it yet, anyway. Will do that at work tomorrow.

I don't think distributing binaries will be possible, but I am for sure going to repackage the source for OSX so you can compile your own version (this takes a bit of work, but I'll try to write a simple set of instructions).

Also part of me (the part of me I don't like) is tempted to start hacking on the source of the game itself and add features, but I don't think anything would ever come of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pijaibros wrote:
I'm playing this on a Windows machine at home.

My game crashed once randomly. I don't know why though. Sorry you're having problems like this.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Pijaibros wrote:
I'm playing this on a Windows machine at home.

My game crashed once randomly. I don't know why though. Sorry you're having problems like this.


It's alright, I just find it odd that something this uh...simple (?) would like to crash on me if I touch my mouse at the wrong time. It's not a big deal, it usually comes as an indicator that I should stop and move on to something else once it happens three times. I'm just thankful it saves at every new floor.

The annoying thing is that if it does crash and I'm halfway done exploring a new floor there's nothing new when I return. Basically, it's almost like a free do-over. It does take some of the surprise out of it which is both a help (no need to identify) and a hindrance (surprise is gone).

Nana Komatsu wrote:
Also part of me (the part of me I don't like) is tempted to start hacking on the source of the game itself and add features, but I don't think anything would ever come of it.


See, that's the part I DO like. Nothing ventured, nothing gained I say. Always something that can be learned. Most people don't even have the ability and know-how to do more than play the game. That's talent.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana Komatsu wrote:
Shaper asked me if I uploaded my OSX Tile Version anywhere and the short answer to that is "no, because it wouldn't work". I haven't tried it yet, anyway. Will do that at work tomorrow.

Now I'm curious as to the gory technical details as to why it wouldn't work. Lack of universal binaries? Installing stuff into /usr/local ? Something else entirely? I've packaged Unix-y MacOS X ports before (in the distant past), and am happy to help!

(PM or IM me if you don't want to get into gory technical details in this thread.)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ApM wrote:
Nana Komatsu wrote:
Shaper asked me if I uploaded my OSX Tile Version anywhere and the short answer to that is "no, because it wouldn't work". I haven't tried it yet, anyway. Will do that at work tomorrow.

Now I'm curious as to the gory technical details as to why it wouldn't work. Lack of universal binaries? Installing stuff into /usr/local ? Something else entirely? I've packaged Unix-y MacOS X ports before (in the distant past), and am happy to help!

(PM or IM me if you don't want to get into gory technical details in this thread.)


I don't have much experience with packaging things for OSX before. That said, there are some pretty strict requirements (X11.app, libpng) and if I wanted to distribute a binary version for OSX (which would be powerpc only, anyway) I'd have to do something smart with libraries and resource files since the paths to a lot of that end up hardcoded in the compiled files.

I was thinking of setting up a DarwinPorts package because then you could ensure the dependencies are all met and it's compiled for the user's system, but I need to look into it further.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


uh oh.

other interesting things in the dungeon: this orange statue attacks intruders with a powerful mental assault. last time i happened upon one as an intelligence four berserker her mind got eaten. this one confused me, causing me to stumble into its chamber by accident, where it ate my memory and began swallowing my mind, reducing me to an intelligence of four. i swallowed a potion of restore abilities and managed to get out of there.

i also found this hall. to reach these inner chambers you have to pass through a long hall full of traps. a fire giant chased me out before i could explore further.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

had my best run as a troll berzerker, with an awesome hammer. cleaned out the orc mines:



but i discovered that trolls and centaurs are hard to fight off together.

trolls suck! bees suck!

and to think i used to believe that orc priests were the worst thing out there.

Code:
  Last messages:
> The troll hits you!
> * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
> The troll hits you!
> * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
> The centaur shoots an arrow.
> The centaur shoots an arrow.
> As you read the scroll, it crumbles to dust.
> You feel strangely unstable.
> The troll hits you!
> * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
> The troll misses you.
> The troll hits you!
> * * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
> The centaur shoots an arrow.
> The arrow hits the kobold.
> The kobold dies!
> The centaur shoots an arrow.
> The centaur shoots an arrow.
> The arrow hits you!
> You die...

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clearing out the orc mines is pretty impressive.
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Pijaibros
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Joined: 25 Jan 2006
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Location: Mistake by the Lake

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quick question...

Can you dual wield in this game?
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
loves your favorite videogame


Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: bohan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhex wrote:
i discovered that trolls and centaurs are hard to fight off together.

trolls suck! bees suck!

and to think i used to believe that orc priests were the worst thing out there.


i got hit by a titan for sixty-six damage. also: killer clowns.

the trick to centaurs is getting next to them so they can't use their bows and arrows. if they're in an open place, hide around a corner so they can't see you and wait for them to come looking. then: pounce!

the trick to trolls is usually to run away. you can make some decent armor from their skin if you kill them, though.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pijaibros wrote:
Can you dual wield in this game?


not as far as i know. if you want to be able to switch between two weapons (like say a bow and a sword) at a single keypress, though, you can use the = key to assign one weapon the letter a and one the letter b. then you can swap them by pressing the ' key. it's pretty handy.
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dhex
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Joined: 13 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i got out in the open and two centaurs showed up from different directions while i was running from the second troll. i killed one of them on an earlier level but that took fucking forever.

sometimes the randomness of the dungeons feels very un-random, in that items seem to clump together by type (i..e three floors worth of wands, etc)
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Pijaibros
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Joined: 25 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dessgeega wrote:
Pijaibros wrote:
Can you dual wield in this game?


not as far as i know. if you want to be able to switch between two weapons (like say a bow and a sword) at a single keypress, though, you can use the = key to assign one weapon the letter a and one the letter b. then you can swap them by pressing the ' key. it's pretty handy.


Yeah, switching between weapons with a single key press was more of what I was trying to ask and yes that response was what I was looking for!

Too many times I get murdered since I keep wishing to have a few weapons at hand and fumble trying to de-equip and re-equip.
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Nana Komatsu
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Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I had some free time at work today:

Tile version in OSX as a downloadable package with installation instructions: http://magical-girl.com/crawl/

Spread the word, bitches!
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sawtooth
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
sawtooth wrote:
who here's been using my name >Sad

This isn't you?


nope! not me! my pseudonym wasn't as unique as i thought it was when i was 14.

Currently downloading x11 so I can play this, though.
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Nana Komatsu
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tell me if that worked out! I tested the package on two computers and it looked okay to me, but I want to be sure before I announce it any further.

Also I want to mention that "The Island: Come and See/The Landlord's Daughter/You'll Not Feel the Drowning" by The Decemberists makes great crawling music.
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Winged Assassins (1984)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favourite music for Crawling is the Quake soundtrack.
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dhex
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it works on my wife's laptop. (though the joint jpg/png installler from that 3rd party site did not, though the individual libraries worked fine.)
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Shapermc
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Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nana Komatsu wrote:
Spread the word, bitches!

OK, done

Also, the new Virt album goes really well with crawl.
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dhex
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on the g4 @ work, it runs significantly faster than my home pc, which is far more powerful. not a bad thing or anything, just odd.
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