The Gamer's Quarter

[Nana Komatsu]

I never bought the bomblings and that didn't stop me from beating the game.

I have 20 poes but when Jovani said there are 40 more out there I was kind of pissed off.

I still have to try the Cave of Ordeals!

[internisus]

I never bought bomblings either. Was there a reason to?

I kind of want to find all the poes just so I can tell that poor girl that Jovani's back. I really liked the challenge involved in getting to poes during dungeons, and I do admit to going out of my way for any poe I spotted, often at quite a distance, on the overworld. I sort of want to get them all to justify that effort. It bothers me that you can only see them at night. I spent a lot of time exploring on the overworld, and that fact was always in the back of my mind. Sometimes I would see a poe in the distance and not get to it until after daybreak, so I'd have to remind myself to come back again at night.

I agree that it was nice how easy and fun it was to upgrade the quiver. It would have been nice to see such substantial rewards for other tasks. There were too many 100-rupee chests that I worked too hard for.

[Redd]

Someone told me the Sky Palace is not the last dungeon. Is this true? I think I confused them when telling them where I was. But maybe not.

BTW if you go in the Cave of Ordeals, make sure you turn into your wolf form on each level before leaving and switch on your sense mode to detect any holes in the ground that you can dig up, they hold hearts.
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Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool.

[Nana Komatsu]

There are arguably two more dungeons/areas after the Sky Palace.

[Redd]

[Nana Komatsu]

Yeah that Sky City dungeon is murder.

[Redd]

D'you beat it yet?
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Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a pool.

[Nana Komatsu]

Yes, I've beaten everything except the Cave of Ordeals. Are you stuck?

The City in the Sky was the only dungeon that I had to go through a section multiple times, soemthing that I've hated about Zelda games for years and was hoping this iteration wouldn't have.

[internisus]

Maaan, the sky city is my second favorite dungeon.

My first favorite was the water temple, and I enjoyed that so much because I gradually figured out how the place worked over the course of getting through it. I came to understand it in slow phases and it was just mentally enjoyable.

The sky city, on the other hand, was interesting because I could tell immediately what the item would be and thus was able to see how each room I limped through without that item would be a completely different and liberated experience once I got it. I was able to discern its logic and structure before I got the item and anticipate what it would do to open the place up. I even noticed the central shaft and predicted how that would work. Activating the propellers was unexpected icing on that cake. I understand why some people might find it a pain or confusing, but it was bliss for me.

On the other hand, dungeons like the snowpeak mansion were very mundane and obvious to me. I mean, every dungeon was at least alright, but only those two really shine to me.



SPOILERS on last two dungeons:



The twilight palace or whatever was pretty cool, though a tad gimmicky. I just thought the architecture was sweet. I like the twilight atmosphere and NES-like sounds and the lit runes all over everything. Also, I got a kick out of having the giant hand finally make its appearance but in such an unexpected and creepy form.

Hyrule Castle was a great change from all the gamey dungeons, as some have pointed out. I had some issues with it, though. I still can't figure out how to get to the room with the treasure chests off the ground floor right wing outside. Also, I hated the moment when your friends from the resistance show up. I appreciate the spirit in which it was done, but it sucked to have them show up for just that moment and then have no involvement, especially since the enemies they eliminated were so mundane. It would have been better for them to unexpectedly assist in a boss fight or something.

[Redd]

[internisus]

do you want help?

[dessgeega]

hint: there's a switch you need to pull.
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[internisus]

I am prepared to show up dess and tell you where it is. All you have to do is beg.

[Nana Komatsu]

When you move from the side wing of the dungeon back to the main room, there is a gold ball switch you have to pull in the ceiling to start the fan that allows you to get to the boss room. You can only access this from the giant fan silo chamber at the end of that wing, and if you jump down into the middle room without pulling the switch you have to work your way through half the dungeon again (which is the part I hate).

[Redd]

Well, I don't even know where I left off. I'll try looking around for those things... thanks.

[internisus]

That's not true. I made that mistake and thought I would have to do that as well, but before going all the way back I tried some things and found a way to get back up there. It can be done.

[dessgeega]

yeah, you can get back up there from the central room. use your clawshots.
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[internisus]

but to be fair noticing that switch is the bitch of that dungeon, it's true. i tried to get across before i noticed it, and you can almost make it! if you target the tops of the grills in each propeller link grabs the top surface and pulls himself up to the top of it, so you can target the next one. you can get all the way to the sideways ones that way.

[Harveyjames]

It's a good dungeon, I just wish you could see the ground when you look down instead of more sky. It's the perfect opportunity for a breathtaking view of the whole of Hyrule. You could use the hawkeye to zoom in on Link's house and shoot it to get hearts. What gives.

[Mr. Mechanical]

[Nana Komatsu]

I tried the Cave of Ordeals just now. It reminds me a lot of Dynasty Warriors using the Zelda engine. I only made it to somewhere in the 30s before I forgot to heal and died (to a purple chu no less) but I don't know that I care enough to go back and beat the whole thing.

[The Great Unwashed]

So like, I just did the Lake Hylia and Lakebed Temple. Fuck me sideways. The dungeon itself was okay, but the boss was the absolute worst boss I have ever fought in any Zelda game. So far the bosses are actually getting easier. All you have to do is clawshot-pull his eye out (wow that's nothing like Ocarina of Time's Water Temple Boss at all now is it*) and smack it a few times.

Then he gets angry and swims around, so you swim above him where he can't hurt you at all and simply clawshot down onto his back and stab his other vulnerable eye a few times.

There is almost NO way of getting damaged unless you're functionally retarded. I am finding very little to like about this game so far.

*Not mentioning the fact that there's a temple at the bottom of Lake Hylia that you need the Iron Boots and Water Tunic to get to after unfreezing Zora's Domain wow this is all so fresh and new to me.
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[dessgeega]

compared to the first water temple boss (zelda 3) they're even more disheartening.
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[Harveyjames]

You know there's something exactly like the Cave of Ordeals in Wind Waker. It's under the big ugly head on Outset Island. It's better because Wind Waker is more fun to play than TP (Well, Wii TP at least).

[david]

Last night I turned on Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time, running into different video ins on my TV, and switched between them to compare the looks of the worlds. It started because I was playing TP and thinking, "I bet I really can't see how cool this looks anymore," and feeling kind of bummed about the dulling of my senses. So I went back to the old game and goooooodness gracious! That sh*t is primitive, yo! Epona looks like a stiff wooden play horse, and when Link whips him he sounds like Joe Pesci. I guess that's what most surprised me, how stiff, silly and toy-like it was riding Epona. And of course, Hyrule Field is basically just a big area for you to ride your horsey; there's nothing else happening. It was still cool, but in a quaint retro way, not in the awesome epic way it used to be. Then I'd flip back to TP and it everything was so much bigger, more fluid, clear and alive. It's easy to feel a little fatigued with the Zelda formula, but sometimes I forget that giving the series a "current" appearance and feel is not just a matter of waiting until 2006 -- it takes loads of work. It's not just the graphics, but the way it plays. Swinging your sword on horseback, dismounting while Epona is still running (in the Cube version!), throwing your boomerang in third-person like the 2-D games (in the Cube version!) or in first person if you prefer, locking on to multiple targets before letting it fly, all those cool sword techniques...
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[dessgeega]

it occured to me that for a place called death mountain, it's not really very scary or even imposing any more.

in the original zelda, it's the most dangerous of the game's locals and the farthest from the start point, where ganon broods from his secret pit while dual-sword-wielding lion-centaurs roam the crags looking for travelers to slay. in adventure of link, it's a labyrinth of forbidding caverns that divides the new continents of zelda II from the wasted lands of zelda I (which seem so small when we see them now). in link to the gods, it's a precipice that looms above the world, from which ancient towers and their gods (the final dungeon of each of the game's worlds) look down over the tattered clouds.

in ocarina and twilight princess it's the home of those friendly, lovable gorons. okay, they're initially hostile in twilight princess but they're big chummy shamanistic fellows who like to wrestle and kick back in hot springs. what is particularly deadly about this mountain? how did it earn its name? does the goron shop find that the name hurts its sales?

it's just another example of a zelda skeuomorph - an element of the game that has long since lost its context but wears its name anyway as though tradition itself was the game and not the other way round. i want a scary death mountain please.
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[Nana Komatsu]

The name could be "death mountain" because they want to scare people from going there. If I recall correctly, the Gorons aren't open to having outsiders come visit them, and one way to do that is give your home a scary name (like "iceland").
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[david]

That's true, it was always the most remote and dangerous part of the world, overlooking from the north. In TP it's not even in the north anymore. Since OoT, Hyrule Castle has been the location with the most drama and danger surrounding it.

But, you know... TP pays homage in so many ways to the past games, I'm glad Nintendo didn't feel beholden is this case.
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[Nana Komatsu]

I really kind of liked how Hyrule Castle was seen as this forbidden place (being surrounded by twilight for most of the game). I realize they've been doing that for a few games now, but it struck me as being pretty neat.
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[dessgeega]

i liked that you could the giant prism surrounding hyrule castle from any outdoors location in the game.

(i didn't like that no one else could see it.)
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[Lestrade]

Good call on the skeuomorph notion, Dess. Zelda is chock full of them.

[simplicio]

[Lestrade]

[Nana Komatsu]

[dessgeega]

midna is like the only good thing about the game.
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[Lestrade]

Oh Dess, so negative!

After all my own bitching and moaning I found in the end that I enjoyed Twilight Princess a hell of a lot, and look back on my 40 hours spent with it with sincere fondness. But yes, Midna had a lot to do with it. For having a weebly-wobbly Nintendo voice, she sure emoted well.

Now I just enjoy riding around on Epona, looking for Poes or secret tunnels. I think I might play the final area again some day. I wish the game gave you a post-completion save, but for spoileriffic reasons, I can see why that wouldn't make sense.

[Harveyjames]

[Max Cola]

I've really enjoyed this game so far but I'm starting to understand why people around here have some issues with it. I really wish the sidequests were less "find bugs, kill the fuck out of Poes (isn't Jovani creepy looking?), catch every fish in the known universe, etc." Or at least that the rewards were bigger and better - that Rune Armor is kind of lame, for instance.

I also wish the dungeons were more unpredictable. Progress through the game essentially follows one pattern: find next dungeon, get inside, find map and compass, kill sub boss, get big treasure, use big treasure to blow through dungeon (best part!), get big key, defeat flashy but easy boss. Repeat until final boss encounter, win game.

I was replaying Link's Awakening and was stunned when I realized that this was the first Zelda game with sub-bosses and yet I could pick up the "awesome treasure" before I beat each one. TP got stuck in a pattern that (IIRC) even Wind Waker did not have.

Oh, and more optional swords/shields (or any for that matter) please.

I will say this, though: the ball-and-chain is a really, really great item, as is the spinner. More cool, unpredictable stuff like that would be nice.
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The only girl I've ever loved was born with roses in her eyes. But then they buried her alive, one evening 1945, with just her sister at her side, and only weeks before the guns all came and rained on everyone...

[Harveyjames]

[david]

Shoeshine boy?? Where's he?
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[Viewer]

[Harveyjames]

Oh yeah, that would have been hott.

I don't know if only Japanese players would get it... I got it, and I'm not the only English person I know who likes/is aware of BAPE.



If they really wanted to satirize that whole scene I think they should have had a conveyor belt in the store displaying bombs of all various colours, like the one above. The rarer colours of bombs would be 5 times as expensive even though they're exactly the same type of bomb. Then they could have some crazy customer following the rare one around saying 'It's just the same bomb in a different colour... BUT I GOTTA HAVE IT!'

[kirkjerk]

So I finally got to starting this.

First thoughts, maybe a quarter to half through:

* I know this might be incredibly corny to point out, but the influence of Ico is pretty striking. It's like Ico meets Tron w/ a touch of Wind Waker

* You know, for a game too pure to give you a jump button, there are a lot of jumping puzzles. I have a tremendous ability to miss.

* I don't really care about spoilers, though others might, but I was wondering, what are the layout similarities between this and Z:OoT ? I think I notice a few details, like the way stuff juts out into the lake, but I might be making it up.
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[Toto]

I am so disgusted and disenchanted by the Sky Dungeon I can't bring myself to turn on the game and power through.

[Nana Komatsu]

The rest of the game after that point isn't so bad!

The gigantic hand from the original zelda that warps through walls makes a comeback!

The ending is totally worth it!
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[internisus]

I like the sky dungeon.
and the water dungeon.


i think it's because they have real architectural structures. or maybe it's the way the whole level is sort of a puzzle involving its item. or maybe it's not a coincidence that they are both hookshot stages. i dunno.

[kirkjerk]

Heh. Actually it's the lakebed dungeon (is that the "water dungeon"?) that's discouraging me. Maybe because I started letting myself lean to much on the guide, so I'm not developing a good "feel" for the central room etc.
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[Cycle]

I should probably finish this game. I got to the boss door in the temple of time, realised I didn't have the key, and haven't turned it on since. I've also been busy, so yeah.
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[Harveyjames]

[kirkjerk]