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"Gamers Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility"
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
You missed Fatal Frame! Too bad I have the PS2 version.


Yeah, Fatal Frame would be interesting except, like you, I have the PS2 version. It released way too late on the Xbox so I think most people ignored it.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Also, can someone tell me why I should be interested in Dreamfall? I ... don't really know anything about it.


as far as i know, it's the sequel to a game that was bloated and contrived. i've never had the appeal of it explained to my satisfaction.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Also, can someone tell me why I should be interested in Dreamfall? I ... don't really know anything about it.


As a game it's pretty broken, and the story is convoluted with a lengthy yet barebones ending, but the characters are interested. I really enjoyed the people I met and jumping from character to character - you play the character from the original who is in a war against a people called the Azadi, an assassin from the Azadi sent to kill her, and the main character that is caught in the middle. The voice-over work is absolutely fantastic and goes a long way to giving the characters the kind of personality that makes talking to and interacting (however limited) with them enjoyable.

The controls are clunky, the puzzles are super easy except for two or three that seem to come from nowhere, and there are combat and stealth portions that are just needlessly frustrating. But hell if I don't love Theoretically Blind Bob, Crow, and the other random people you run across.

I have it on PC if you want to play it.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, along with Indigo Prophecy: ultimately not effective, but at least they're trying to revive and expand upon the genre.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's with the unreleased games like Volvo: Drive for Life being on the list?

Edit: Nevermind... found the game on ebay. Looks like it was only available through Volvo dealers.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simplicio wrote:
Also, along with Indigo Prophecy: ultimately not effective, but at least they're trying to revive and expand upon the genre.


Revive I can see, but how did Dreamfall expand upon the genre? There was some mild nonlinearity in the form of multiple solutions to puzzles, but it didn't really seem to show up too often. Most of it was just the same old dialogue tree -> fetch quest -> inventory puzzle -> (repeat) flow chart, but with the inventory puzzle bit removed.

For my money, In Memoriam did a better job of expanding the genre than either Indigo Prophecy or Dreamfall. While everyone else was sort of wondering what form of gameplay to graft onto the genre as a bit of last-ditch life support, the IM team seemed to be the only development team that noticed the really high quality adventure-style gameplay that's being put out by the ARG community these days. They didn't really implement it too well - too many of the puzzles suffered from parser-style "what does the developer want me to say?" problems - but it still was a lot more refreshing, for me, than most of the games in the genre.
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaleNixon wrote:
Volvo: Drive for Life
Looks like it was only available through Volvo dealers.


Holy Crap! That game sounds amazing! It's a crash test game? ODD!

-Wes
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought it was just a trendy name for an extended warranty.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fatal Frame II next! And then a patch that will allow the PS2-only III to be played!

Pleeeeeeeeeeease!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roam Unit wrote:
simplicio wrote:
Also, along with Indigo Prophecy: ultimately not effective, but at least they're trying to revive and expand upon the genre.


Revive I can see, but how did Dreamfall expand upon the genre? There was some mild nonlinearity in the form of multiple solutions to puzzles, but it didn't really seem to show up too often. Most of it was just the same old dialogue tree -> fetch quest -> inventory puzzle -> (repeat) flow chart, but with the inventory puzzle bit removed.


It was mostly just the removal of the inventory puzzles, which to me have long been the most abhorrent parts of adventure games. I'm not saying it succeeds here; I'm not even saying I've finished either of those. Just that they're trying.

What's that game where you time travel around to prevent your own murder? I need to play that one.
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shadow of Destiny?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim Schafer cares about backwards compatibility.
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SuperWes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DUDE!

New Backwards compatibility update with pretty much every game I wanted!

Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Burnout 3: Takedown (support updated)
Conker: Live and Reloaded
Dead or Alive Ultimate
Destroy All Humans!
Dynasty Warriors 4
Evil Dead: A Fistful of Boomstick
Ex Chaser (Japan only)
Family Guy
Far Cry: Instincts
Farenheit/Indigo Prophecy
I-Ninja
Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude
Mortal Kombat: Armageddon
MotoGP
Muzzle Flash (Japan only)
MX Unleashed
Open Season
Pariah
Plus Plumb 2 (Japan only)
Psychonauts
Psyvariar 2 Extend Edition (Japan only)
Rainbow Six: Lockdown
Rapala Pro Fishing
Rent-A-Hero no. 1 (Japan only)
Scarface
Shark Tale
Shenmue II
Soul Calibur II (North America only)
Splinter Cell: Double Agent
Tenerezza (Japan only)
The Incredibles
The SpongeBob SquarePants Movie
Ultimate Spider-Man
Wakeboarding Unleashed: Featuring Sean Murray
Whacked!
Winback2: Project Poseidon
Xiaolin Showdown

Now they just need to add a bunch of Sega games and the Prince of Persia series and I'll have most-every game I want to play.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After playing with a few games through BC I decided that no matter how "good" it is, it still kind of sucks and I just leave my Xbox hooked up. Games that play in 720p look really damn good on the Xbox, and much better than they do on the 360. Also, for those with HD screens that can get burn-in the 360 will force black bars on the side of non-widescreen games which will create burn-in.

So, yeah, lesson: don't sell old consoles.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SH4 actually looks really good on the 360, except during the cutscenes when the characters' faces don't render properly and they look like they have leprosy.

I'm excited about finally being able to play indigo prophecy on my 360 but I'm scared that it's going to have mad graphical glitches. The frustrating part is that they spend all this time working on emulating each game perfectly but then they (clearly, clearly) don't spend any time testing them. I've seen and heard of games on the list that have crippling, game-breaking glitches.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister Toups wrote:
SH4 actually looks really good on the 360, except during the cutscenes when the characters' faces don't render properly and they look like they have leprosy.

I've seen and heard of games on the list that have crippling, game-breaking glitches.

Silent Hill 4 looks really damn good on the Xbox in 720p with digital audio.

Anyways, the game that made me stop trying/caring about the BC was Cthulhu Dark Corners of the Earth. I know it was the actual game that made me finally quit, but it looks so-o horrible that it was painful to look at. It was like the game was coming through a blurry RF connection. Couldn't belive it.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:53 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&q Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
Peter Moore made the following statements in a recent interview:...

While I don't fully agree with Peter Moore, I can't deny that there is some truth in what he says either. For me backward compability has never been a big deal, since I simply played the games that interest me already on the original console, back then when they where released, so that the number of old games I am interested in when going to the next gen console is somewhat close to zero. Sure, every now and then there pops up and old games that I might be interested to replay, but connecting the old console again never has been that big of a problem, especially when they are somewhat compatible (video and powercables of PS1 work on PS2, video connector from SNES still works on Gamecube, etc.).

The thing where backward compability would become interesting, is if it would enhance the game, say higher resolution, better framerates, allow me to use newer memory cards (PS1 games on PS2 still need PS1 memory card) and such, but for most part that simply hasn't happened, original Gameboy games on the GameboyColor with its much better display are probally the only noteworthy exception.

However, what I would find far more interesting then plain backward compatibilty would be upward compatibility across consoles generations, at least in the time of transition from one generation to the next. The GameboyColor had that a little while, where games would run in color-mode on the GBC and in four-shades-of-green mode on the old Gameboy, but on the large consoles I don't think it ever happened. Which is sad, since with games such as Dreamfall, which got released on the XBox1 in the period when the XBox360 was already out, it would have been relatively easy to just compile a native version for the XBox360 and ship it on the very same CD as the XBox1 version. Instead of this however one had to wait month till that game finally got backward compatible, not exactly something that makes a smooth transition from one generation to the next, especially since the developers have little to no influence if a title ever gets backward compatible for the XBox360, its all up to Microsoft.

On the Wii its again the same, while Zelda is pretty much the same game on both systems, there are different versions for Wii and for Gamecube, so instead of just getting Wiimote controls when poping the GC disc into the Wii, one gets Gamecube controls. If one wants Wiimote controls one has to rebuy the game. Its the same with plenty of other games that get seperate versions for Wii and Gamecube where nothing beside the controls changed. The NintendoDS had the same issue, a GBA game can only run in GBA-mode, there is no way for a GBA game to take advantage of the larger screen on the NintendoDS or the more buttons, instead we get different versions for each console again.

This lack of upward compatibilty is annoying me a lot more then backward compatiblity, since every time I want to buy I game for the old console I have to take into account that I might buy the next generation console in a few month and thus either have to rebuy the game or live with an probably inferior version of the game.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
Mister Toups wrote:
SH4 actually looks really good on the 360, except during the cutscenes when the characters' faces don't render properly and they look like they have leprosy.

I've seen and heard of games on the list that have crippling, game-breaking glitches.

Silent Hill 4 looks really damn good on the Xbox in 720p with digital audio.

Anyways, the game that made me stop trying/caring about the BC was Cthulhu Dark Corners of the Earth. I know it was the actual game that made me finally quit, but it looks so-o horrible that it was painful to look at. It was like the game was coming through a blurry RF connection. Couldn't belive it.


Silent Hill 4 runs in 720p on the xbox?!?!


...really?!
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&a Reply with quote

grumbel wrote:
The thing where backward compability would become interesting, is if it would enhance the game, say higher resolution, better framerates, allow me to use newer memory cards (PS1 games on PS2 still need PS1 memory card)

Actually, the most interesting thing for me about the PS3 is that I hear PS1 games look phenomenal on the console at higher resolutions. Particularly the 2D games from the console.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&a Reply with quote

grumbel wrote:
Stuff


See, that's all well and good, but

1) I have a girlfriend who doesn't like having 10 systems hooked up to the TV.
2) I'm a lazy fuck.

I don't want to have to hook up a new system every time I want to play a game. It's really convenient for me to just pop a game in a system that's currently hooked up rather than having to go get the cables out of the closet, climb behind my TV, and do some surgery every time I want to mess around with a game for a bit. I guess it's really not all that important, but convenience is a selling point to me. It's probably the biggest reason I don't play that many PC games and that I actually buy CDs and games instead of spending days trying to track down pirated copies on the internet.

And yes, that goes for Matt as well. I'd rather just play a game on the 360 than go through the hassle of hooking up my Xbox. Shit, one of the reasons I'm excited about the PS3 is virtual memory cards. I don't want to have to sift through my PS1 memory cards every time I play a half-finished PS1 game.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&a Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
And yes, that goes for Matt as well. I'd rather just play a game on the 360 than go through the hassle of hooking up my Xbox.

I just leave my Xbox hooked up. I don't re-hook it up. I have a switcher box for all that crap.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&a Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
I just leave my Xbox hooked up. I don't re-hook it up. I have a switcher box for all that crap.


See point number 1.

Quote:
1) I have a girlfriend who doesn't like having 10 systems hooked up to the TV.


-Wes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&a Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
I have a girlfriend who doesn't like having 10 systems hooked up to the TV.

That's because you have a fireplace taking up all kinds of room that you don't even use. Your living room just isn't the right size. I mean, if you had the right kind of entertainment center to hold it all, a good switcher box and could make the cords invisible I'm sure things would change.

You're just using excuses here. The real thing is "I'm a lazy fuck." You know it.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&a Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
You're just using excuses here. The real thing is "I'm a lazy fuck." You know it.


Point noted. But you do realize that you're arguing that you'd rather have both an Xbox and an Xbox 360 hooked up than just be able to play the old games on your 360, right?

-Wes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&a Reply with quote

SuperWes wrote:
you do realize that you're arguing that you'd rather have both an Xbox and an Xbox 360 hooked up than just be able to play the old games on your 360, right?

No, what I'm saying is that Microsoft has done such a terrible job of BC that I would rather not play games BC than on the 360. In leiu of that I leave my Xbox hooked up.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: "Gamer's Don't Care About Backwards Compatibility&a Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
No, what I'm saying is that Microsoft has done such a terrible job of BC that I would rather not play games BC than on the 360. In leiu of that I leave my Xbox hooked up.

So you're saying you care about Backwards Compatibility?

-Wes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do, just not for the 360, well not anymore anyways. I mean I use to, but they just can't seem to get anything right, and after reading that 360 Unleashed book it makes sense why. I'm better off just not hoping against hope.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
I do.

So in the end Peter Moore was half-right! Gamers do care about Backwards Compatibility, just not for the 360.

-Wes
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Backwards compatibility is perhaps the last thing that should be considered when investing in a games console.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably my favorite thing about the Wii is that it meant I got to get rid of my 64 and gamecube. I hate clutter.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dracko wrote:
Backwards compatibility is perhaps the last thing that should be considered when investing in a games console.


except xbox and the 360 have about 4 games a piece I want to play. I'm not about to purchase any game system to play 4 games on, so I haven't bought either.

those xbox games are:
jet set radio future
otogi
panzer dragoon orta
oddworld: strangers wrath

see what I'm getting at?

here's a question: didn't Rent-a-Hero have some bizarrely limited US release? So is that combatible already or did they really just do the Japanese version of it.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

simplicio wrote:
didn't Rent-a-Hero have some bizarrely limited US release?


No. It was a few weeks away from release on GameStop's pre-order lists for about a year before jumping off of it and never returning. The Sega game that got a super-limited release was Spikeout, which is actually not too bad and not too hard to find now (as far as I know).

-Wes
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

simplicio wrote:
jet set radio future
otogi
panzer dragoon orta
oddworld: strangers wrath

You're missing Gunvalkyre and Otogi 2. Also, the best looking versions of Silent Hill 2 and 4 if you haven't played them yet.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I picked up my third or fourth copy of Shenmue II today. Fifth.

I forgot I had the Japanese version.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shapermc wrote:
simplicio wrote:
jet set radio future
otogi
panzer dragoon orta
oddworld: strangers wrath

You're missing Gunvalkyre and Otogi 2.


And Galleon. I forgot that one. I'd just ask to borrow someone's xbox, except I'm notoriously slow about actually playing games, especially recently.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fable, Galleon, both the Oddworld Games, maybe Otogi. Ninja Gaiden (Black). Voodoo Vince, Toejam and Earl. CSI. Kung-fu Chaos?
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonMarco wrote:
I picked up my third or fourth copy of Shenmue II today. Fifth.

I have three versions (well my wife does): UK Dreamcast, US Xboxen, JPN Dreamcast*

* signed by Yu Sazuki

Ketch wrote:
Fable, Galleon, both the Oddworld Games, maybe Otogi. Ninja Gaiden (Black). Voodoo Vince, Toejam and Earl. CSI. Kung-fu Chaos?

I never could get into the Toejam and Earl for the Xbox. I played a friends copy for a good two hours and just let it sit on a shelf for a few month before he took it back. Also: Kung-Fu Chaos is really excellent with 2-4 players.

I keep hearing good things about Voodoo Vince occasionally. I should really give that a try.
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dessgeega
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if i get some money for the holidays i should finally track down that copy of shenmue II.

like, i'm way overdue.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New Updade on BC!

This list has a few quite excellent games.

Quote:
Tenku (Japan only)
Avatar: The Last Airbender
Avatar: The Legend of Aang (EMEA/ANZ)
Breakdown
Call of Duty 2: Big Red One
Call of Duty 3
Cars
Crash Bandicoot 5: Wrath of Cortex
Daisenryaku VII
FIFA Soccer 2007
Full Spectrum Warrior
Guilty Gear Isuka
Innocent Tears (Japan only)
Jet Set Radio Future
King of Fighters 2002
King of Fighters: Neowave
Mad Dash Racing (Japan only)
Mech Assault 2: Lone Wolf
Mercenaries: Playground of Destruction
Nascar 2006: Total Team Control
NFL Fever 2004
Oddworld Munch's Oddysee
Panzer Dragoon Orta

Petit Copter (Japan only)
Phantom Dust
Reservoir Dogs
Return To Castle Wolfenstein
Rugby League 2
Sengoku Warriors (Japan only)
Sonic Riders
Soul Calibur 2 UPDATED
Spider-Man 2
Star Wars: Republic Commando
Street Fighter Anniversary Collection
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
Tony Hawk's Underground
Ultra Bust a Move /ULTRA Pazzle Bobble
Unreal Championship 2


Who knows how well they emulate though ...
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"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to try and pick up JSRF at least, obviously.
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ryan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Gladius makes the next round, now that Orta is on there, then I don't have much need for my original Xbox. I should look into all those nifty mods and whatnots for it. DJ told me about some memory card trick with Splinter Cell that I wouldn't mind giving a whirl.

I think I should pick up Mercenaries soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
IGN
he magazine adds that Sony plans on removing the PS2 chipset from future revisions of the PS3 hardware once it has finished development of a proper software-based PS2 emulator. Such a removal would help bring down costs for the system.


PAL regions don't even get the first model PS3 with PS2 hardware. We get shite software emulation from the get go. Not only this, but as usual the PS3 will cost more than it does in Japan or the US. I guess Sony are getting their money back on us PALers. Don't cry for us, we already did.
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Pijaibros
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry. Sony is just testing the waters for when they pass their "savings" on to all the other territories
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B coma
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orta emulates fine.

The framerate on the videos are pretty jumpy, and the the sky turned purple during part of the fourth stage, but the game is pretty colorful so it didn't look out of place.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is good to hear, as I have JSRF and Orta winging their way to me.

Does Orta's version of the first Panzer Dragoon work?
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JSRF works brilliantly.

There might be some slowdown and (maybe?) some slight sound issues, but the original game might have had slow down and I'm probably imagining the sound issues, so it's all gravy.
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Shapermc
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume that you have the single disc for JSRF (not the packin double disc with Sega GT). Good to know that it works well enough. BC is pretty hit and miss.
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"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"
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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, single disc. It's a second hand copy.

Jet Set Radio is much clunkier than I remember!

I love it anyway.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ryan wrote:
If Gladius makes the next round, now that Orta is on there, then I don't have much need for my original Xbox. I should look into all those nifty mods and whatnots for it. DJ told me about some memory card trick with Splinter Cell that I wouldn't mind giving a whirl.


Modding the Xbox justifies it's price and ownership.
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