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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Boston
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 Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JamesE wrote: | | When someone is talking about dualism which is a philosophy of mind, I expect that we have entered a context, and all subsequent items will be raised in this context. Of course I'm going to assume you're talking about functionalism as a philosophy of mind. I'm not even sure how functionalism is relevant - all it really implies in this context is that if someone - say a programmer at Boston-based developer Harmonix - decided to program a computer hard enough, that computer could have a comparable mental state to Faithless getting DTs and seeing rats. Then he'd, I don't know, make a cocktail with triple sec. Possibly. Maybe he'd program a computer to feel that way for him. |
(James, you got my personal information wrong, by the way. Nice try though!)
Anyways, the whole point of Functionalism was that it's one way of viewing the mind as part of the physical body, while still seeing it as seperate from the body.
I see "the mind" and "the body" as distinct things, and it is sometimes acceptable to make a conscious trade-off for "the mind" by sacrificing something from "the body". This is a big part of my philosophy on drugs, which I tried to lay out in a very civil manner.
To understand that view, I guess you need to understand what I mean by "mind" and "body"...... AlphaNemesis seemed to think I meant something Dualistic in my distinction, and so I was just pointing out that it was closer to Functionalism, you see, which it is. I just want to make sure I'm being clear in what I'm trying to say here. I even threw in a one-sentence explanation so that no one had to go looking things up!
I mean, all I'm trying to do here is explain my thoughts on this stuff and hope that maybe somebody finds it useful, or provide me with some new insight? Also, I agree that the "Functionalism" bit went way off course, and I don't see why it had to. There was absolutely nothing gained from going past my simple explanation of how my view isn't a Dualist one.
So, are you even trying to make a point anymore, or are you just hoping to piss me off?
Oh why do I even bother asking...
Last edited by Hot Stott Bot on Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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crispus attucks jr
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder why computers never had built-in radios. |
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Dunno. |
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JamesE
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Straight Up, Straight Down
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Hot Stott Bot wrote: | | Anyways, the whole point of Functionalism was that it's one way of viewing the mind as part of the physical body, while still seeing it as seperate from the body. |
You're saying that functionalism claims p & ~p, where p equals "the mind is part of the body". That is absolutely impossible to claim. Functionalism claims that mental states have causes and are reproducible. The nature of the mind and it's connection to the body are not the key issues being examined, rather it claims that a brain in condition ABC will react in the way XYZ (broadly speaking). Provided whatever material function A is handled by in brain 2 performs in the same way as material B in brain 1 handles that function, brains 1 + 2 can exhibit similar cognative states.
In short, I don't know what you're trying to talk about and neither do you.
| Quote: | | I see "the mind" and "the body" as distinct things, and it is sometimes acceptable to make a conscious trade-off for "the mind" by sacrificing something from "the body". This is a big part of my philosophy on drugs! |
Faithless' "mind" (which exhibits in this world as a lot of important things distributed throughout her body, with the cognative functions and sense of self contained inside her skull)) is incapable of functioning to a normal standard UNLESS she purchases and consumes alcohol on a regular basis. It could even kill her! It'll bump up her chances of cancer, cognative decline and organ failure, as well as imposing a constant tax on her wallet.
What the has the mind gained that has been sacrificed from the body alone? The body and the mind are both things which exist in the same system. When one part of the system suffers the performance of the system as a whole suffers. You like doing drugs, fine. Don't feed the demons on someone else's shoulder and don't try and pseudointellectualise it - we already have Tim for the former and Aderack for the later, thanks.
| Quote: | | To understand that view, I guess you need to understand what I mean by "mind" and "body"...... AlphaNemesis seemed to think I meant something Dualistic in my distinction, and so I was just pointing out that it was closer to Functionalism, you see. |
Your view of the body and mind is dualistic in a sense, just a very confused, unfocused kind of dualism.
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JamesE
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| crispus attucks jr wrote: | | I wonder why computers never had built-in radios. |
bort I would keep this niche a secret and build computer-radios for profit
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Faithless
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Joined: 11 Sep 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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So, it's wrong to have a glass of wine every day? I believe there are some scientists who would disagree. I've stepped back on the hard alcohol, and haven't been drunk in weeks.
And I had a sponsor from AA, so it wasn't like I wasn't taking the shit seriously. She isn't happy with the choice to go back to drinking, but she is very proud of the way I've altered my habits and shifted my lifestyle.
The point is, I lead a stressed, irregular life, and have chosen to include a moderate amount of drinking in it for the foreseeable future. The hallucinations and withdrawal were managed by myself (and my sponsor) in a medically acceptable way. I see no reason, however, to deny myself the pleasures and culinary benefits of a life without any alcohol whatsoever.
You're not going to see Faithless Drunk Threads any time soon. It was a real, tangible change in my life. I don't see a reason to be Puritan about it, but I don't want to live a life ruled by extremes -- drinking/not drinking is very binary. There's plenty of room for moderation. Will I be drinking at my party? Yes. Will I drink to excess? No.
Have I given up smoking? Yes. Completely.
So, thanks for the support, James. I know it was heartfelt. If I ever find myself in a position of dangerous addiction again, believe that I'll get help. I've done it before, and will do so again if needs be. Thanks to everyone who cares; it's what sets IC apart from other places.
Also, I don't know if drinking is a "western" thing. Doesn't a traditional Japanese breakfast begin with sake?
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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sorry i worried too much  |
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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James, can we hug and make up make out now? ;_;
Oh, anyways...
| Quote: | | Functionalism claims that mental states have causes and are reproducible. The nature of the mind and it's connection to the body are not the key issues being examined, rather it claims that a brain in condition ABC will react in the way XYZ (broadly speaking). Provided whatever material function A is handled by in brain 2 performs in the same way as material B in brain 1 handles that function, brains 1 + 2 can exhibit similar cognative states. |
We're having a big namespace collision, man! I know what you're talking about, and I know it's also called functionalism, and I know it doesn't sound anything like what I'm talking about... and that's because it isn't!
Let's not worry about the name so much, okay?
| Quote: | | You're saying that functionalism claims p & ~p, where p equals "the mind is part of the body". That is absolutely impossible to claim. |
That's what it seems like!
But it isn't!
That's why it's so cool!
The really core idea that makes this possible, deep down at the heart of things, is that the way things are organized creates something new which is more than just the sum of its parts, yet can't exist without those parts.
If the mind were just the sum of all the body's parts, then it would be in a sort of perfect harmony with the body, which seems to be the view you propose. However, in my view, the mind can have a purpose that runs counter to the body, yet still only exists as a part of the physical body.
Last edited by Hot Stott Bot on Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:14 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Joe
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Faithless wrote: | So, it's wrong to have a glass of wine every day? I believe there are some scientists who would disagree. I've stepped back on the hard alcohol, and haven't been drunk in weeks.
And I had a sponsor from AA, so it wasn't like I wasn't taking the shit seriously. She isn't happy with the choice to go back to drinking, but she is very proud of the way I've altered my habits and shifted my lifestyle.
The point is, I lead a stressed, irregular life, and have chosen to include a moderate amount of drinking in it for the foreseeable future. The hallucinations and withdrawal were managed by myself (and my sponsor) in a medically acceptable way. I see no reason, however, to deny myself the pleasures and culinary benefits of a life without any alcohol whatsoever.
You're not going to see Faithless Drunk Threads any time soon. It was a real, tangible change in my life. I don't see a reason to be Puritan about it, but I don't want to live a life ruled by extremes -- drinking/not drinking is very binary. There's plenty of room for moderation. Will I be drinking at my party? Yes. Will I drink to excess? No.
Have I given up smoking? Yes. Completely.
So, thanks for the support, James. I know it was heartfelt. If I ever find myself in a position of dangerous addiction again, believe that I'll get help. I've done it before, and will do so again if needs be. Thanks to everyone who cares; it's what sets IC apart from other places.
Also, I don't know if drinking is a "western" thing. Doesn't a traditional Japanese breakfast begin with sake? |
As long as you are getting help from AA (they are good peoples) then I think you'll be fine.
Good luck!
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DonMarco
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 349
Location: 33903
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Me too, James.
I think enough time has passed since Labor Day, huh?
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Collector of over 1,538 strategy guides. That's weird, right?
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BalbanesBeoulve
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Joe wrote: | | AA (they are good peoples) |
They really aren't. Someone find that Penn and Teller Bullshit episode about AA for me. |
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DonMarco
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 349
Location: 33903
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | I'm all about some Gears of War tonight guyz. |
boojiboy and I are on now!
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Joe
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| BalbanesBeoulve wrote: | | Joe wrote: | | AA (they are good peoples) |
They really aren't. Someone find that Penn and Teller Bullshit episode about AA for me. |
Tell that to my mother and father, who would still be on the bottle if it wasn't for AA.
Fuck Penn and Teller.
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Last edited by Joe on Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| JamesE wrote: | | Then he'd, I don't know, make a cocktail with triple sec. |
Also, I've gotten tired of the Triple Sec cocktails. They're starting to bore me. I'm just drinking it neat now, and I like it just as much as in the cocktails, so...... |
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BalbanesBeoulve
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| They were lucky, and it's great that they got off the bottle. But statistically, AA is no more effective than stopping cold turkey. |
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Joe
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| BalbanesBeoulve wrote: | | They were lucky, and it's great that they got off the bottle. But statistically, AA is no more effective than stopping cold turkey. |
You know, I think having a large group of support helps a lot more than quitting cold turkey with no help.
Here's a better idea, Balbanes! Stop presuming you know anything at all about what I'm talking about because you saw an episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit!
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BalbanesBeoulve
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Joined: 16 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| This is obviously too personal for you so I'll stop. |
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JamesE
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 168
Location: Straight Up, Straight Down
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Faithless wrote: | | So, it's wrong to have a glass of wine every day? I believe there are some scientists who would disagree. I've stepped back on the hard alcohol, and haven't been drunk in weeks. |
Regular moderate red wine intake correlates with a decent standard of living, which means that it's hard to tell if the glass a day causes the health advantages or correlates with other factors, like healthcare and good eating. This is irrelevant. You cannot stop drinking without getting the DTs and seeing things that aren't there.
[quote]And I had a sponsor from AA, so it wasn't like I wasn't taking the shit seriously. She isn't happy with the choice to go back to drinking, but she is very proud of the way I've altered my habits and shifted my lifestyle.[/b]
That's nice. You have a dependency on alchohol.
| Quote: | | The point is, I lead a stressed, irregular life, and have chosen to include a moderate amount of drinking in it for the foreseeable future. The hallucinations and withdrawal were managed by myself (and my sponsor) in a medically acceptable way. I see no reason, however, to deny myself the pleasures and culinary benefits of a life without any alcohol whatsoever. |
Because you have a physiological addiction to a harmful drug, perhaps? I disagreed with extralife's assessment of antidepressants on Insert Credit last week, but maybe he should think about applying it here: if you need a chemical to get by, perhaps you need to look at the bigger picture.
| Quote: | | You're not going to see Faithless Drunk Threads any time soon. It was a real, tangible change in my life. I don't see a reason to be Puritan about it, but I don't want to live a life ruled by extremes -- drinking/not drinking is very binary. There's plenty of room for moderation. Will I be drinking at my party? Yes. Will I drink to excess? No. |
That's nice. You have a dependency on alcohol. Denial is a common trait exibited by people with such dependencies. You're a borderline alcoholic and you've chosen to remain a borderline alcoholic rather than address the deeper issues that fuel your alcoholism.. You're hiding behind free will to disguise a condition that imposes on your will.
| Quote: | | So, thanks for the support, James. I know it was heartfelt. If I ever find myself in a position of dangerous addiction again, believe that I'll get help. I've done it before, and will do so again if needs be. Thanks to everyone who cares; it's what sets IC apart from other places. |
Thanks. This really is intended in the very best way. I'm not doing it to be the John Bender of the IC Breakfast club and shock the normals (I'm the cool Janitor), I just feel compelled to put these points forward in the very best spirit of John Stuart Mills, marketplace of ideas and all that shit. You have a right to get slaughtered on booze, as long as you don't get behind a wheel of a car or any shit like that.
| Quote: | | Also, I don't know if drinking is a "western" thing. Doesn't a traditional Japanese breakfast begin with sake? |
The guy from Amusement Vision had an utterly epic whiskey intake. He used to write about it in Edge. It depends - the French and Belgians have insanely strong brews and drink regularly, but tend not to ever do it to get drunk. The British love booze more than pussy.
Does anyone want to hear my story about how a drunk almost killed himself with a head injury right in front of me?
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JamesE
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I've said my piece here on this issue, anyway. Except functionalism, which I'm entirely right on.
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internisus
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 354
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Ebrey wrote: | Guys, we have to name the forums winkerchoice or winker may not come back to us .
I wouldn't mind having a site attached to the forums - we should think about what it should be though. Does the new IC even HAVE to be devoted to video games? While the irony of a video game forum populated by people who don't like video games was part of what made the old IC great, we should look into other subjects.
Imagine if the new site featured weekly articles about things that were part of the core IC experience, but which we never considered to be articles because we had defined that narrowly as 10 pages of NGJ ramblings. The new site could have weekly articles callled "TOLLMASTER's Emo Experience," "Baron Patsy's Adventures in Puberty," and "Uncle Dhex Explains Democracy." |
Hey, guys. I'm still back on the first page of this thread, but I like this a lot.
I generally like the ideas about having forum threads and community discussions become front page material. It lets the forums become a kind of think factory, which is what IC should have loosened up and let happen. George's idea just takes that thought and expands it from videogames-only to general-also and even axe material.
Also, I don't like the name much, and hopefully it will be the one bit of awesome that you all hold back so that, one day, the internet will still have a place for a site of my own. =( |
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extralife
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Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 233
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Here's my take on alcohol intake:
A friend of mine lost an uncle to a drunk driver. She lost a friend to a drunk driver. She drinks (though she does not drink and drive!)
The point is this: there are many, many things in this world that are not good for you. Some of them are socially acceptable, some are not. The lines are arbitrary. We all make bad choices, and we all have our vices. They are a part of us. Until these things completely alter who you are, you need to be able to live with them. We've all got to draw our own lines. I mean, straight edgers--are they better than anyone else? No, they just give up all kinds of traditional vices for different ones. Yay rah.
I have issues with prescription drugs because people treat them as magical cure alls and society cheers on everyone that takes them. I just see them as other, different vices. |
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crispus attucks jr
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey intern when people start blowing off steam they can do it in the privacy of their own homes and not in a forum were I am the administrator. Because I am not the kind of guy who will stand for any kind of bullshit. |
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| crispus attucks jr wrote: | | Hey intern when people start blowing off steam they can do it in the privacy of their own homes and not in a forum were I am the administrator. Because I am not the kind of guy who will stand for any kind of bullshit. |
By the way guys, I will soon be posting on the IC frontpage.
Which should tell you something, I guess.
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| JamesE wrote: | | Except functionalism, which I'm entirely right on. |
James, I'm flexible on the alcohol issue, but I will e-fight you on this until my last breath! |
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Swimmy
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 990
Location: Fairfax, VA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Faithless wrote: | | So, it's wrong to have a glass of wine every day? I believe there are some scientists who would disagree. |
You have to be very careful how you use statistics. Apparently scientists don't know how. See here.
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Mr Mustache
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Joined: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 167
Location: Queens
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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I am drinking a Blue Moon...oh god James please save me ;_;
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AlphaNemesis
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Joined: 17 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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One more thing to consider: I get angry at inefficiency. Really, I've noticed this. I hate it when people make "mistakes" that I wouldn't have made. I hate it when people solve a problem in an inefficient way. (Again: Me being oh so smart and able to do it better.) So... if this is something other people get angry over as well then it could explain some things. For example if you see abstinence as an expression of ignorance or fear of new things.
Someone might stay away from alcohol (or mind altering drugs etc) because of fear of losing "himself". Staying abstinent gives him identity. Now, identity is important. Just that at somepoint you might be in conflict of keeping the identity you have built and stalling the development of your personality because you can't reach out for new things. Example: Some people don't want to color their hair because they don't want to be "that kind" of person. They connect something to that action. Coloring your hair is a sign of vanity or what ever. "That's not what I am so -> conclusion."
Also, someone might hear...:
| Hot Stott Bot wrote: | | I see "the mind" and "the body" as distinct things, and it is sometimes acceptable to make a conscious trade-off for "the mind" by sacrificing something from "the body". This is a big part of my philosophy on drugs, which I tried to lay out in a very civil manner. |
...and think that that it is not an elegant solution. Making a sacrifice like this. Making a very simplyfied example:
Xavier loves to be confident around large groups of people. Sadly, he is not. Xavier takes a drug that irreparably damages 1% of his brain cells (starting with those that he doesn't really need anyway) everytime he takes it and in return makes him very confident around large groups of people. He has found a solution to his problem!
This solution will only work up to a certain point. To the point where he has not enough brain cells left to be able to take the drug.
Personally I would be inclined to find a better solution for this problem. Finding a drug that only takes 0.5% of my brain cells. Or switching the drug for lessons in the school of natural leaders. Those lessons take 4 hours of your freetime every week. Now that would take some careful weighing of the situation. What is the lower sacrifice to make? Can I even go to that school when I'm off the drug? Would it make sense to take the drug, go take some lessons and after a few sittings, quit the drug? Is it all worth it? Maybe Xavier should just say: Damn you, large groups of people! I don't need you!
There is this drive in me that wants to help everyone to be as well and healthy as possible. When I have found something that is important to me, I want to share it. And sometimes I see the situation a person is in and I think that I could help her make it better. Even if that person described a situation she is perfectly happy with! And those are the time where I have to take a few breaths and think. Hard.
---
extralife: I think it's possible to reduce ones vices, not just trade one for another!
"The lines are arbitrary. We all make bad choices, and we all have our vices. They are a part of us."
I would fully agree with this if I wouldn't get the feeling that it implies the acceptance of ones vices as unchangable. Personally, I can accept my struggle against vices. I can accept that it will be there for the rest of my life. I feel like my vices are part of me as much as anything else but I'm not afraid of getting rid of them. I won't lose a part of me. Merely the things that make up what I consider to be myself are changing. Not my self. Just to explain: I'm ready to accept what ever I am capable of being as myself. Defining myself is more of an observation as opposed to an action. This is something I have found to be very stable! Because I can not do anything that would not be me. I just go: Oh! So that's part of me as well!
"I have issues with prescription drugs because people treat them as magical cure alls and society cheers on everyone that takes them. I just see them as other, different vices."
Man. Especially if a medicine is used to cure an illness that has no medical basis. (shit... is it "medicinical"?) But I guess what society cheers on is that lobotomy is (seemingly) a thing of the past and issues that have no basis in modern medicine are taken seriously. By the ones having them and the ones trying to cure them.
--
(Reading through what I have written, I am very angry at my inability to write understandable English sentences right now. I'm learning, okay?!)
Last edited by AlphaNemesis on Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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crispus attucks jr
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| AlphaNemesis wrote: | One more thing to consider: I get angry at inefficiency. Really, I've noticed this. I hate it when people make "mistakes" that I wouldn't have made. I hate it when people solve a problem in an inefficient way. (Again: Me being oh so smart and able to do it better.) So... if this is something other people get angry over as well then it could explain some things. For example if you see abstinence as an expression of ignorance or fear of new things.
Someone might stay away from alcohol (or mind altering drugs etc) because of fear of losing "himself". Staying abstinent gives him identity. Now, identity is important. Just that at somepoint you might be in conflict of keeping the identity you have built and stalling the development of your personality because you can't reach out for new things. Example: Some people don't want to color their hair because they don't want to be "that kind" of person. They connect something to that action. Coloring your hair is a sign of vanity or what ever. "That's not what I am so -> conclusion."
Also, someone might hear...:
| Hot Stott Bot wrote: | | I see "the mind" and "the body" as distinct things, and it is sometimes acceptable to make a conscious trade-off for "the mind" by sacrificing something from "the body". This is a big part of my philosophy on drugs, which I tried to lay out in a very civil manner. |
...and think that that it is not an elegant solution. Making a sacrifice like this. Making a very simplyfied example:
Xavier loves to be confident around large groups of people. Sadly, he is not. Xavier takes a drug that irreparably damages 1% of his brain cells (starting with those that he doesn't really need anyway) and in return makes him very confident around large groups of people. He has found a solution to his problem!
This solution will only work up to a certain point. To the point where he has not enough brain cells left to be able to take the drug.
Personally I would be inclined to find a better solution for this problem. Finding a drug that only takes 0.5% of my brain cells. Or switching the drug for lessons in the school of natural leaders. Those lessons take 4 hours of your freetime every week. Now that would take some careful weighing of the situation. What is the lower sacrifice to make? Can I even go to that school when I'm off the drug? Would it make sense to take the drug, go take some lessons and after a few sittings, quit the drug? Is it all worth it? Maybe Xavier should just say: Damn you, large groups of people! I don't need you!
There is this drive in me that wants to help everyone to be as well and healthy as possible. When I have found something that is important to me, I want to share it. And sometimes I see the situation a person is in and I think that I could help her make it better. Even if that person described a situation she is perfectly happy with! And those are the time where I have to take a few breaths and think. Hard.
---
extralife: I think it's possible to reduce ones vices, not just trade one for another!
"The lines are arbitrary. We all make bad choices, and we all have our vices. They are a part of us."
I would fully agree with this if I wouldn't get the feeling that it implies the acceptance of ones vices as unchangable. Personally, I can accept my struggle against vices. I can accept that it will be there for the rest of my life. I feel like my vices are part of me as much as anything else but I'm not afraid of getting rid of them. I won't lose a part of me. Merely the things that make up what I consider myself are changing. Not my self. Just to explain: I'm ready to accept what ever I am capable of being as myself. Defining myself is more of an observation as opposed to an action. This is something I have found to be very stable! Because I can not do anything that would not be me. I just go: Oh! So that's part of me as well!
"I have issues with prescription drugs because people treat them as magical cure alls and society cheers on everyone that takes them. I just see them as other, different vices."
Man. Especially if a medicine is used to cure an illness that has no medical basis. (shit... is it "medicinical"?)
--
(Reading through what I have written, I am very angry at my inability to write understandable English sentences right now. I'm learning, okay?!) |
I mean if I sit down and toil for a dozen hours to write an article I certainly don't want some illiterate morons to come and add their dim-witted observations (complete with spelling errors etc.) to my beautiful, carefully-crafted page. |
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| AlphaNemesis wrote: | One more thing to consider: I get angry at inefficiency. Really, I've noticed this. I hate it when people make "mistakes" that I wouldn't have made. I hate it when people solve a problem in an inefficient way. (Again: Me being oh so smart and able to do it better.) So... if this is something other people get angry over as well then it could explain some things. For example if you see abstinence as an expression of ignorance or fear of new things.
Someone might stay away from alcohol (or mind altering drugs etc) because of fear of losing "himself". Staying abstinent gives him identity. Now, identity is important. Just that at somepoint you might be in conflict of keeping the identity you have built and stalling the development of your personality because you can't reach out for new things. Example: Some people don't want to color their hair because they don't want to be "that kind" of person. They connect something to that action. Coloring your hair is a sign of vanity or what ever. "That's not what I am so -> conclusion."
Also, someone might hear...:
| Hot Stott Bot wrote: | | I see "the mind" and "the body" as distinct things, and it is sometimes acceptable to make a conscious trade-off for "the mind" by sacrificing something from "the body". This is a big part of my philosophy on drugs, which I tried to lay out in a very civil manner. |
...and think that that it is not an elegant solution. Making a sacrifice like this. Making a very simplyfied example:
Xavier loves to be confident around large groups of people. Sadly, he is not. Xavier takes a drug that irreparably damages 1% of his brain cells (starting with those that he doesn't really need anyway) and in return makes him very confident around large groups of people. He has found a solution to his problem!
This solution will only work up to a certain point. To the point where he has not enough brain cells left to be able to take the drug.
Personally I would be inclined to find a better solution for this problem. Finding a drug that only takes 0.5% of my brain cells. Or switching the drug for lessons in the school of natural leaders. Those lessons take 4 hours of your freetime every week. Now that would take some careful weighing of the situation. What is the lower sacrifice to make? Can I even go to that school when I'm off the drug? Would it make sense to take the drug, go take some lessons and after a few sittings, quit the drug? Is it all worth it? Maybe Xavier should just say: Damn you, large groups of people! I don't need you!
There is this drive in me that wants to help everyone to be as well and healthy as possible. When I have found something that is important to me, I want to share it. And sometimes I see the situation a person is in and I think that I could help her make it better. Even if that person described a situation she is perfectly happy with! And those are the time where I have to take a few breaths and think. Hard.
---
extralife: I think it's possible to reduce ones vices, not just trade one for another!
"The lines are arbitrary. We all make bad choices, and we all have our vices. They are a part of us."
I would fully agree with this if I wouldn't get the feeling that it implies the acceptance of ones vices as unchangable. Personally, I can accept my struggle against vices. I can accept that it will be there for the rest of my life. I feel like my vices are part of me as much as anything else but I'm not afraid of getting rid of them. I won't lose a part of me. Merely the things that make up what I consider myself are changing. Not my self. Just to explain: I'm ready to accept what ever I am capable of being as myself. Defining myself is more of an observation as opposed to an action. This is something I have found to be very stable! Because I can not do anything that would not be me. I just go: Oh! So that's part of me as well!
"I have issues with prescription drugs because people treat them as magical cure alls and society cheers on everyone that takes them. I just see them as other, different vices."
Man. Especially if a medicine is used to cure an illness that has no medical basis. (shit... is it "medicinical"?)
--
(Reading through what I have written, I am very angry at my inability to write understandable English sentences right now. I'm learning, okay?!) |
Those are all very interesting points and observations!
I like some of them!
I don't know what to think of all of them yet!
I don't really have anything to say, either, because you're not really disagreeing directly with anything I have to say!
That is all! |
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| guys let's bond over a cactus pow-wow, 'k? |
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| dongle wrote: | | cactus pow-wow |
Tequila? |
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chompers po pable
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Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 142
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| Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| peyote and tequila. |
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Psiga
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Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Green Valley, Henderson, NV
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| peyquila |
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dhex
Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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that is not a good combination.
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Psiga
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Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Green Valley, Henderson, NV
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Voice of experience?
Story time! Story time! |
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Jeff Garneau
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| dongle wrote: | | OK so I went on the IC Facebook group and I'm pretty sure I found faithless immediately by looking for the least healthy looking member. |
i thought her name was heather |
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sawtooth
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Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 419
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:11 am Post subject: |
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that was churippu!
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dhex
Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Voice of experience? |
no. it sounds like a continuous stream of vomit.
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Chuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiippppppuuuuuuuuuuu !! |
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Jeff Garneau
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 49
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:18 am Post subject: |
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what i don't remember churippu looking like that
maybe i saw a picture of glitch
it's hard to keep track of all these girls on our forums |
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:20 am Post subject: |
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glitch is the cool, funny one from Euroland.
Faithless is the one with the distinctively mature, yet cute, look.
Churippu is the one with that hard to describe look and the awesome crazy eyes.
Jeff Garneau is the one with that tramp/slut look.
Last edited by Hot Stott Bot on Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:24 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Persona-sama
Weltbeherrschen Mangaka
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 709
Location: acrylic polymer dismutation
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Wait, wait, wait!
There's an IC facebook? How do you sign up for these Facebooks? I thought they were locked only for public colleges.
Actually, is there even a need for one? Doesn't Myspace handle interpersonal social circles well enough?
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Joe
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Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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Maybe you guys shouldn't talk about the looks of people you don't know
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Vinny, I know Jeff Garneau and he totally looks like a tramp/slut and you know it! |
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:29 am Post subject: |
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| Persona-sama wrote: | Wait, wait, wait!
There's an IC facebook? How do you sign up for these Facebooks? I thought they were locked only for public colleges.
Actually, is there even a need for one? Doesn't Myspace handle interpersonal social circles well enough? |
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204693633
Facebook has a slightly better atmosphere. I'll leave it at that. Plus the IC facebook group is a lot more active. Facebook is open now. It started as only Harvard and Dartmouth, then went to other privates, then public schools, now everyone. |
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Swimmy
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Joined: 16 Sep 2005
Posts: 990
Location: Fairfax, VA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Oh I am going to join even though I haven't posted on IC for like a million years.
Everbody add me ok ^_^
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"Ayn Rand fans are the old school version of Xenogears fanboys."
-seryogin |
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dongle
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 290
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| added ^_^ |
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Toto
4th Man
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 122
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Faithless wrote: | | Also, I don't know if drinking is a "western" thing. Doesn't a traditional Japanese breakfast begin with sake? |
I can't see the minimalism of Japanese culture leading to the shit faced drunken culture we have here in Australia, where alcohol consumption is highest in the world (apparently, my Mum tells me).
Then again I've never been to Japan (;__;) |
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Hot Stott Bot
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Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 366
Location: Boston
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Toto wrote: | | Faithless wrote: | | Also, I don't know if drinking is a "western" thing. Doesn't a traditional Japanese breakfast begin with sake? |
I can't see the minimalism of Japanese culture leading to the shit faced drunken culture we have here in Australia, where alcohol consumption is highest in the world (apparently, my Mum tells me).
Then again I've never been to Japan (;__;) |
Japan has a pretty shit faced drunken culture. |
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Psiga
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Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 124
Location: Green Valley, Henderson, NV
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| Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: |
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| Japanese have different tolerance for alcohol than westerners, so it's a bit more difficult to get straight-up shit-faced. |
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