The Gamer's Quarter

Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

Am I the only person who thinks that SOTC is highly overrated? For me the getting to the destination part is very tedious and with very few clues to help you get to your destination
The graphics, yes these ARE amazing. Highly organic, beautiful - but cold. Instead of warmth it gives you a form of desolate beauty in the landscapes and plants. The colossii are also highly impressive.

The battles aren't that interesting, (I've got to the Electric eel one). What is this a Bull-riding simulator? The most interesting thing is figuring out how to get onto each colossus. But when that is done, there is nothing left (so far). Zelda (Wind Waker etc,), fares FAR better as a puzzle solving action-adventure.

The whole idea seems pointlessly back to front. the stupidity of killing all the colossii is obvious to probably everyone who plays it. I haven't found it very moving so far either, sure I can see that you feel sad at destroying the creatures. But it isn't like it makes you cry or anything. At least in Metal Gear Solid games they have you believing that what you are doing is right til' the near the end.

I think that without the amazing graphics this game would have got hardly .any of the acclaim it has got.

Nana Komatsu · weak sauce Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1293

The storm clouds are gathering.

ajutla · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 4:42 pm Post subject:

I have never played sotc. i keep seeing it in stores and i never buy it, because i keep thinking about how shitty i thought ico was.

yeah, i went there.
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Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

dongle · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

And fetch-quests are crap anyway.
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dongle · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290

Yup. I liked SOTC's atmosphere more and I felt that it stripped the gameplay down to a 'greatest hits' of fucking awesome boss battles and traversing beautiful, moody terrain. I don't have the patience for Aonuma Zeldas (i'm a whiner).

DaleNixon · . Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 179

There are some mindblowing colossi after the electric eel one.

But yea, different strokes, etc.

Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

What other games focused on bosses constantly? Apart from Alien Soldier, and maybe Strider and Osman, none really spring to mind.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

Lackey · . Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 1107 Location: Canada

Yeah, I guess with fewer enemies you're expected to differentiate between them more. I only mean that in most games with regular enemeis you'll have a limited vocabulary to deal with them. Shoot or don't shoot.

So yeah, you always climb on them and you always have to find and stab their weak spots.
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Winged Assassins (1984) · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:03 pm Post subject:

I find it dull as well, when I am away from the game. I really thought it was some hot shit while I was playing it the first time through but now I've really lost all interest in the game and can't really be bothered going back to it. I'd sell it but I don't want to get rid of the art cards since they are nice to look at and I just love cardboard packaging.

I never played ico
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Toto · 4th Man Joined: 21 Mar 2006 Posts: 122

I played ICO for an hour and got bored.

chompers po pable · . Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 142

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

schild · . Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 30

Being able to jump is huge. I can't play Onimusha because you can't jump. Not being able to jump and then not being able to go over a 1 foot barrier drives me fucking insane. Especially in Zelda. Man, what the hell. Auto-jumping platformer style areas? Who in the shit came up with this?

-

Also, I wouldn't call the SoTC graphics amazing, but they are beautiful.

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

Zelda doesn't need jumping, chump! Go back to IC!

chompers po pable · . Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 142

mechanoriINtransit · . Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 33

Shadow of the Colossus and ICO are probably the only games I can truly appreciate. Ueda is just about the only person trying to move forward these days.

dongle · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 290

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

mechanoriINtransit · . Joined: 21 Jan 2006 Posts: 33

antitype · . Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 292

It's a matter of taste, I guess.

The obvious analogy still stands: SotC is ambient music. One who is more accustomed to rock music or pop music or even classical might listen to ambient and not appreciate the way that it subverts what you've come to expect from music, what you want music to be. You find it boring because it's not full of catchy hooks, and its rhythmic cycles are more drawn-out and nuanced. It forces you to wonder why you're listening to it at some points, but with some patience and careful attention you might find it even richer and more engaging/meaningful than more accessible and pandering music.

I think some people hate it when I start spouting off like this, thinking I'm being a self-important snob, but I think I'm only offering a different perspective. I like rock, pop, and classical music. I love a good hook in pretty much anything. Sometimes, though, I want something with a bit more depth, even when it bears the illusion of being somewhat simple or shallow (due to being uncluttered; pure in its vision).
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wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

I wasn't really influenced by any hype about this game. I bought it blindly based on how much I liked ICO, after intentionally avoiding any reviews for fear of spoilers. And I thought it was amazing (though ultimately not quite as satisfying as ICO).

Lockeownzj00 · . Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 214

Yeah, Shakespeare's a hack.

vision · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 57

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

I am in total agreement as to how amazing the vulture is. The armadillo was pretty great too. Conversely, a lot of the "puzzle" colossi are really very dull and uninteresting, if only because the game so readily gives you hints. It would have been better to either make them more "actiony" or maybe even turn around and do the opposite; to have them all active at once and then make them less aggressive and more complex.

It's a lovely game, though.

(guys I liked Ico a lot)

(also the bull is a total disaster I think it must violate every different game design doctrine ever written)
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dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

If Beyond Good and Evil has a problem, it's that the photography is considerably more fun than any other aspect of the game and I started to resent all the things I had to do in order to be able to go take more pictures.
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

BG&E is very good as a movie. It never felt like a game as much as an interactive movie. I liked it but it just never captivated me, so I would stand on either side of a line with that game.
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david · . Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 170 Location: b, md

Aren't there some Rasta rhinos?

In BG&E.
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dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

I could go either way on them, really.
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Swimmy · . Joined: 16 Sep 2005 Posts: 990 Location: Fairfax, VA

I said stuff about it elsewhere.

Basically my impression is that the game is really sweet and pretty and I love what they were going for, but they didn't quite make it. The colossi act too much like videogame bosses for me to think of them as living creatures, the videogameness is often a distraction, the puzzle aspects of boss fights are way overused, etc. It's like the game has a big hole in it. (Smaller holes can be kinda nice though.)
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Ethoscapade · . Joined: 30 Oct 2005 Posts: 276

ajutla:

there's really no way you couldn't like sotc at least a little bit, honest.

also have i told you how much i kind of really like your article in TGQ 7 yet? because i do. i like it and ico and link's awakening and sotc.

internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

dark steve · . Joined: 17 Jun 2005 Posts: 1110

raiden can jump
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boojiboy7 · Posted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:34 pm Post subject:

In metal gear online, the roll can be kinda used like a jump, in certain places.

internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

Sorry, Vision. There was really just one spoiler, but I've whited it out now.

vision · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 57

internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

You of all people I would expect to be enamored with both of these games.

Swimmy, I really agree with your criticism below:

helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

Ketch, I think you're just approaching the game from the wrong angle. Reading the first post of this thread, it seems like you are trying to superimpose a lot of external stuff--from other games, from your expectations of what a game should be, from everyone else's responses--onto your own experience with it. For instance, I think the journeys would be less tedious for you if you stopped thinking about them so much in terms of the destination (a very Zelda way to approach travel). Based on your comments, you obviously appreciate the style of the game's world. Why don't you just take it in? See what you can see for the hell of it. Don't think of it as a means to an end.

Also, I don't know why you expected it to make you cry. I don't know why you're disappointed that you haven't. I don't know why it bothers you that you see where the story is going.

Some of the longer responses in this thread were really well-conceived, and it wouldn't hurt to really try to take those perspectives in.

A few of the shorter ones at the beginning were bullshit. The people either didn't know how they felt or were trying to invent a way to feel, or both. Especially the guy who says he only cares about Ueda games because they're moving things forward. Whatever that means.

All that being said, no one should pounce on you for disliking it, but I personally think you should take another look, perhaps from another perspective without cumbersome preconceptions of what a videogame should be, one that just takes SotC in for what it is.

God I hope that didn't sound way too preachy. I didn't mean for it to!
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Kipple · . Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 21

extralife · . Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 233

Swimmy pretty much explains why I like Ico better than SotC, even if SotC is more immediately impressive.

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

internisus · . Joined: 25 Nov 2006 Posts: 354

Swimmy said that, not me. =(

But yes, we know pretty much for fact that SotC is going to be a huge influence on the next Zelda.

antitype · . Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 292

Harveyjames · the meteor kid Joined: 06 Jul 2006 Posts: 3636

That's right, yeah.

Laco · Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:39 am Post subject: Re: SOTC - is dull ....

I like the posts from internisus, helicopterp and Kipple. You pretty much sum up why I like the game so much. The thing that resonates most with me is this:

Cycle · Mac daddy Joined: 08 Sep 2006 Posts: 2767

I also really enjoyed exploring the world of ICO and thought it was beautiful, mystical... I too often walked through the environments because it felt so improper to cause such a noise in such a elegant place... which is why I was so dissapointed that I hated the gameplay. Hated the combat, the bland and derivative puzzles, and leading that clueless chick around who never does what I want her to do due to obvious programming and AI limitations. The jumping was neat, though!

I also wish it was designed more as a platform game and was just about getting around a beautiful world and exploring it. And I just realised, I kinda wish it had a Riven thing going on... Riven crossed with Ico would be incredible.

Anyway, that's why I like SotC more. You can just freely explore the world, jump on things (I also wish there were more things to jump on), and annoying puzzles and combat don't get in the way unless you want them too - except I totally didn't find them annoying, excluding for the final one and the second bull one which was just TERRIBLE.

I also think it didn't quite hit perfection... I wish you would just stumble on the Colossi, no cut scenes... you would just walk in the desert and that sand worm would shoot out infront of you, for example. I also think they could have let you pick which one to fight and still had it blanaced with some clever design, some of them could be a bit smarter and some of the videogamey features could have been a cut back some. It's annoying, because when a game gets so close to getting things right, everything that it got wrong stands out so much more.

But yeah, a Ueda game that involves lots of jumping, exploring and less videogamey stuff would be great.

Sorry for the poor writing quality of this post, it's the heat and working in it.

OtakupunkX · . Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 730

It took me a very long time to buy SotC. I had heard it was really good by a lot of people (some of which participate in this forum), but for some reason I could never bring myself to buy it.

When I did, I played it for about 10 minutes, got frustrated by the introductory jumping sequence because I am tragically un-l337, and turned the game off so I could go play a massive game of hide and seek at a local mall with some friends.

Later that night, I booted up the game again and started over. It took me awhile to get past that jumping around the mountain sequence, and when I got to the first colossus I played it for a bit, got frustrated, and shut the game off so I could go to sleep, as I had to be at work early the next morning.

I started playing it again after I got off work that day, and got hooked. I'm not very far in it because I have about a million other things going on right now, but I'm really enjoying the game. I agree with Cycle though, SotC could've been better if it had a Riven-esque kind of thing going on.