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the new IC forums should be called |
insertpenis.com |
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16% |
[ 5 ] |
winkerchoice.com |
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43% |
[ 13 ] |
stfutoups.com |
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16% |
[ 5 ] |
locked (icyclam choice) |
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23% |
[ 7 ] |
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Total Votes : 30 |
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, I wasn't in support of this because I wanted to see the forum regulars make their own site. The plan from the get-go was to move the forums off-site, not to frankenstein some new site out of them.
Also, as I recall, this is supposed to be the community's site, not the core user base's site.
Isntead of saying, "oh that's not possible just fuck it," how about we actually focus on trying to restore the IC forums as much as possible? |
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LegatoB .
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Joined: 26 Nov 2006 Posts: 34 Location: Electric Avenue
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Listen to the "chill out, let's figure this stuff out first" crowd. We're only going to get one shot at the "new Forums/site," so let's do it right, mmkay?
Also, blank slate for forums, please. Yes, there was good content on the old forums, but let's not get dragged down by the past. We aren't going to be able to truly recreate them anyway, so let's not pretend we can. |
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Scratchmonkey .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Stott Bot wrote: | The plan from the get-go was to move the forums off-site, not to frankenstein some new site out of them. |
Same thing! |
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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To an extent, but this can be minimized if done carefully... |
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Malloc .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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LegatoB wrote: | We aren't going to be able to truly recreate them anyway, so let's not pretend we can. |
Agreed. |
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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It seems to me that by taking on the role of "steward of the IC forums", you've accepted the responsibility of trying to keep the forums as they were for everyone, and that it would be very selfish to not make that effort just because the "core user base" thinks something else will be better, okay, good enough, or what we "actually" wanted anyways.
You know, kind of like how it might be selfish of Brandon to make changes without consulting the forums because "the IC staff" thought it would be better?
If this isn't what you're trying to create here, then I don't think it would be appropriate to accept the old forums backup. |
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Scratchmonkey .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Who are you talking to? |
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schild .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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You'd be surprised what kind of people you can bring back if you did this right. |
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not sure exactly!
Toups, probably? |
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Mister Toups Hates your favorite videogame
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Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 1693 Location: Lafayette, LA
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Stott Bot wrote: | Dude, I wasn't in support of this because I wanted to see the forum regulars make their own site. The plan from the get-go was to move the forums off-site, not to frankenstein some new site out of them.
Also, as I recall, this is supposed to be the community's site, not the core user base's site.
Isntead of saying, "oh that's not possible just fuck it," how about we actually focus on trying to restore the IC forums as much as possible? |
Well this couldn't have been timed worse. I came here to try and get everyone to settle down and I just got an email from brandon. He basically said that due to privacy concerns they can't really "move" the forums because it would be transferring profile information of the forum users which would constitute an ethical problem as well as violating their privacy policy.
What this means is that it looks like we will have to start from a clean slate, which isn't too bad. And I figure we can at least get the actual forums but none of the user data, and keep a separate post archive (which I will still be getting).
Anyway there's no need for alarm. It's entirely my intent to restore the IC forums and not make something new. Anything additional features (like a frontpage or whatever) will be secondary to the forums. _________________ where were you when nana komatsu got a wii? |
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Joe .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Good. _________________
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Mr Mustache .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Bad. _________________ Straight up |
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Mister Toups wrote: | Well this couldn't have been timed worse. I came here to try and get everyone to settle down and I just got an email from brandon. He basically said that due to privacy concerns they can't really "move" the forums because it would be transferring profile information of the forum users which would constitute an ethical problem as well as violating their privacy policy. |
The privacy issue isn't hard to work around.
Clear out everyone's private profile data before the move. Everyone can still login, and people who want their old profiles "restored" can post in a thread or somesuch, and then that profile data can be restored en masse in a couple weeks. |
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Boo .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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schild wrote: | You'd be surprised what kind of people you can bring back if you did this right. |
Yes. The destruction of the IC forums was a complete waste of our time but now we have the ability of creating something even better. That doesn't mean that everyone from IC will move to the new forums. But at least a certain group of people acknowledge the value of this community. These are the users who believe in videogames and why it's important to keep talking about it. |
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dhex Breeder
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | If this isn't what you're trying to create here, then I don't think it would be appropriate to accept the old forums backup. |
Quote: | One of the most frequently remembered tales of Chuang Tzu concerns an occasion following his wife's death. His disciples sought to comfort him in his time of mourning but found him singing and beating time on a wooden bowl.
"To live with your wife," exclaimed Hui-tzu, "and see your eldest son grow up to be a man, and then not shed a tear over her corpse- this would be bad enough. But to drum on a bowl and sing; surely this is going too far!"
"Not at all," replied Chuang-tzu. "When she died I could not help being affected by her death. Soon, however, I remembered that she had already existed in a previous state before her birth, without form or even substance; that while in that unconditioned condition, substance was added to spirit; that this substance then assumed form and that the next state was birth. And now, by virtue of a further change she is dead, passing from one phase to another like the sequence of spring, summer, autumn, and winter. And while she is thus lying asleep in eternity for me to go about weeping and wailing would be to proclaim myself ignorant of these natural laws. Therefore, I refrain.
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Joe .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Stott Bot wrote: | Mister Toups wrote: | Well this couldn't have been timed worse. I came here to try and get everyone to settle down and I just got an email from brandon. He basically said that due to privacy concerns they can't really "move" the forums because it would be transferring profile information of the forum users which would constitute an ethical problem as well as violating their privacy policy. |
The privacy issue isn't hard to work around.
Clear out everyone's private profile data before the move. Everyone can still login, and people who want their old profiles "restored" can post in a thread or somesuch, and then that profile data can be restored en masse in a couple weeks. |
You clearly have no idea how much work that would entail. _________________
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Joe wrote: | Hot Stott Bot wrote: | Mister Toups wrote: | Well this couldn't have been timed worse. I came here to try and get everyone to settle down and I just got an email from brandon. He basically said that due to privacy concerns they can't really "move" the forums because it would be transferring profile information of the forum users which would constitute an ethical problem as well as violating their privacy policy. |
The privacy issue isn't hard to work around.
Clear out everyone's private profile data before the move. Everyone can still login, and people who want their old profiles "restored" can post in a thread or somesuch, and then that profile data can be restored en masse in a couple weeks. |
You clearly have no idea how much work that would entail. |
Actually, it really shouldn't be that hard.
Basically, just run through the SQL database and replace all IP references with a "127.0.0.1", and replace all the e-mail addresses with a temp gmail address (just so the forums still operate).
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Mister Toups Hates your favorite videogame
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Stott Bot wrote: | Mister Toups wrote: | Well this couldn't have been timed worse. I came here to try and get everyone to settle down and I just got an email from brandon. He basically said that due to privacy concerns they can't really "move" the forums because it would be transferring profile information of the forum users which would constitute an ethical problem as well as violating their privacy policy. |
The privacy issue isn't hard to work around.
Clear out everyone's private profile data before the move. Everyone can still login, and people who want their old profiles "restored" can post in a thread or somesuch, and then that profile data can be restored en masse in a couple weeks. |
I suggested as much to Brandon and he said it would be a hell of a lot of work. And restoring accounts would require involvement from vincent or someone over there, so.... yeah. might not work. _________________ where were you when nana komatsu got a wii? |
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Boo .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Mister Toups wrote: | I suggested as much to Brandon and he said it would be a hell of a lot of work. And restoring accounts would require involvement from vincent or someone over there, so.... yeah. might not work. |
Clean start, from the ashes, like a phoenix. |
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Meh... if we have to, at least get the configuration of the forums from Brandon, and none of the content. |
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Joe .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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The old IC is an old version of phpBB which is mostly un-modified, running a theme that I think we would be best served by not using. I don't see how "the configuration" is important in any way. _________________
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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It's a psychological thing. |
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Joe .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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It seems to be one that only you are having a problem with. Can the discussion move on, now? _________________
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B coma .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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look, I think most people here are on the wavelength of having a clean slate.
the old forums still exist, right? well, if we can at least get salvage some of the important ones through request for archive purposes, even if that's just a basic text dump lets just do that and be happy, for fucks sake. |
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dmauro .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought it was the people that made IC, but apparently it's the color scheme and thread fighter? |
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Hot Stott Bot .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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See, there are people who just don't care all that much, and if someone tells them "IC forums have moved and new name!" and it looks mostly the same, then they'll say, "Okay," and treat it a lot like the old forums.
If you tell them, "There's a new spin-off forum of the IC forums over here!" and it looks different and doesn't feel the same, then they'll say, "Hmm too bad about those IC forums, maybe I'll visit this one..." and never come back again.
I like having people around, okay? |
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Boo .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Stott Bot wrote: | See, there are people who just don't care all that much, and if someone tells them "IC forums have moved and new name!" and it looks mostly the same, then they'll say, "Okay," and treat it a lot like the old forums. |
Sure. I want that black background too you know. |
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dmauro .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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I actually sort of hate the black background, but the new IC forums just wouldn't make sense without it.
edit: HSB, I know what you mean, but I think this will be the "new IC" whether we import that old backups or not. |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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guys I thought it was fairly simple to set up a forum such as this with user selectable color palettes?
So are we totally deadlocked until we've got an agreed upon domain name? _________________
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think so. |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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I actually agree with hott stott.
It would be comforting if the new forums had some sort of tie (beyond the members) to the old forums, be it aesthetics or content. As with the name, this has to be handled right, given the right amount of weight etc.
I'm not suggesting we wallow in nostalgia, but a little bit would give the new forums a necessary integrity. _________________ Straight up |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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You might be right about that dmauro, but I'd rather we not risk that and have the same configuration for the new boards. It looks like we might have to start with no threads and profiles, but there's no reason to change the color scheme and subforum setup, and I think keeping them the same will make a big difference.
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dmauro .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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Mr Mustache wrote: | It would be comforting if the new forums had some sort of tie (beyond the members) to the old forums, be it aesthetics or content. As with the name, this has to be handled right, given the right amount of weight etc. |
So let's call it Insert Cartridge and go with the black color scheme (user changeable as the old one was right?)
(I'm also in favor of keeping the subforums, even though First Funk Forum is awesome)
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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also i know this is jumping the gun but if someone here ends up starting the first news thread and it is called "new neo news thready-thready-thread-thread" i'm probably going to have to sit on the floor and think hard about my life _________________
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Stott Bot wrote: | See, there are people who just don't care all that much, and if someone tells them "IC forums have moved and new name!" and it looks mostly the same, then they'll say, "Okay," and treat it a lot like the old forums.
If you tell them, "There's a new spin-off forum of the IC forums over here!" and it looks different and doesn't feel the same, then they'll say, "Hmm too bad about those IC forums, maybe I'll visit this one..." and never come back again.
I like having people around, okay? |
HSB you've been completely right for the last page or so and I don't know where this opposition is coming from. |
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Would it be redundant to say I agree with showka. ;_;
dark steve wrote: | also i know this is jumping the gun but if someone here ends up starting the first news thread and it is called "new neo news thready-thready-thread-thread" i'm probably going to have to sit on the floor and think hard about my life |
Let us discuss what the name for the latest iteration of the news thread should be, and who gets to start it!
I propose dark steve must start it because he brought it up. |
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GrimmSweeper .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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Alright, but if he takes his sweet time at it I'm totally stealing that right. _________________ This is not a signature. |
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SJ .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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voting for insertcartridge.abc or becausevideogames.what
108 owns selectbutton.tim, and he would make me dance like an ape / destroy the world at his whim. |
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SJ .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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also - gots to keep the Thread Fighter threads and the wiki if possible |
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dark steve .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Toups me and the fellows that I talk to have been talking and please arbitrarily make as many decisions as possible because we could probably not agree on things until the end of time and we'd generally like to have a forum.
Pick a name. The worst possible outcome is that it'll be a bit bland. Insert Credit is a bit bland. Don't worry about it. No one could be made genuinely unhappy or feel unwelcome over this.
Pick a color scheme. Pick a bunch of color schemes. Also won't really matter to most people. Even this forum right here has multiple selectable schemes. Everyone will find something to be happy with.
Don't worry about the frontpage.
Try to get the wiki that'd be nice did you hear all the stuff we asked about the wiki (re: what about the wiki).
Alternatively please let these discussions run because building the forum will take a very long time and you could use the stall (and we're a bit bored).
Thanks. _________________
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Wilkes milky wilkie
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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dark steve wrote: | Toups me and the fellows that I talk to have been talking and please arbitrarily make as many decisions as possible because we could probably not agree on things until the end of time and we'd generally like to have a forum.
Pick a name. The worst possible outcome is that it'll be a bit bland. Insert Credit is a bit bland. Don't worry about it. No one could be made genuinely unhappy or feel unwelcome over this.
Pick a color scheme. Pick a bunch of color schemes. Also won't really matter to most people. Even this forum right here has multiple selectable schemes. Everyone will find something to be happy with.
Don't worry about the frontpage.
Try to get the wiki that'd be nice did you hear all the stuff we asked about the wiki (re: what about the wiki).
Alternatively please let these discussions run because building the forum will take a very long time and you could use the stall (and we're a bit bored).
Thanks. |
to sum up:TOUPS DO IT DON'T WORRY ABOUT THESE GUYS THEY'LL LIVE WITH YOUR BEST JUDGEMENT OK _________________
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B coma .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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right. there are lots of good ideas but right now we need to have our new, er, leader take care of business how he sees fit. |
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Wilkes milky wilkie
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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B coma wrote: | right. there are lots of good ideas but right now we need to have our new, er, leader take care of business how he sees fit. |
post count +1 _________________
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SJ .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Toups, if you eat the flesh of just a few of these guys, I'm sure the right answers will come to you. |
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B coma .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Wilkes wrote: | B coma wrote: | right. there are lots of good ideas but right now we need to have our new, er, leader take care of business how he sees fit. |
post count +1 |
wilkes I that's the last time I try to reiterate anything you say on the internet.
(post count +1) |
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thatbox .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Insert Cartridge is nice because you can still visit the IC forums! It also implies a certain fundamental shift (arcades to homes!) but retains a lot of that old feeling (videogames! insertion!) that everybody likes.
Changing the default color scheme should not be an option ;_; _________________
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ajutla Moderator
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Stott Bot wrote: | How about all the people who probably don't even realize the forums have exploded yet, and might not even find these threads?
Right now we're strongly biased towards the people who regulared the forums enough to actually be aware of everything that has happened and to care enough to start making new forums.
However! I don't think that group makes up the majority of the people who were part of the old IC forums, and we're not really accounting for them yet... |
This post is going to make me sound like a gigantic asshole, but I really don't think this is the right approach. I mean look, I don't know about you, but the biggest problem I had about the events that led to ic's meltdown wasn't really that icyclam was a cockfarmer, even though he was. It had more to do with what I still think is the insane, control-freakish idea of trying to regulate and direct the behavior of people on an internet forum, trying to force them to act in a certain way. Rather than try to address any underlying tensions in a more natural or holistic way, icyclam figured it would be a good idea to do it directly, by explicitly telling people, you know, be nice or else. Talk about obscure things if at all possible. To me that was too much from top to bottom rather than from bottom to top.
I know you had problems with that. So did I. So did most people here except the apologist sellouts such as Toups.*
But like, from a philosophical standpoint, what you want to do is basically following the same idea. You can't have control over how the new community takes shape. It's okay to want that control, to desire to reproduce the same atmosphere the insert credit forums had, but that's totally impossible to even attempt to do and, in fact, if you were to attempt to do that, then you're a hypocrite at best and throwing a flaming electrified monkey wrench into the works here at worst.
What I mean is, the forums died, okay. The people who saw this happen and actually care, they're us, and they're here trying to build new ones. The people who don't know what happened, the people who had five posts and never got to know anyone in the community, those people, you want to get them on board right now. But why the hell does it matter? Those people are not here and they aren't contributing. If we were to give them the opportunity, would they even come? How do you know that they give a damn at all? If they have five posts, maybe it's for a reason? if they can't find Select Because King of Artists or whatever we call it, that doesn't matter, because there will be new people: that's why now we're talking about maybe having a front page and encouraging people not to give the whole shebang a stupid, injokey name. There will always be new people. Everything is in flux etc etc. Time flows like a river etc etc. Specific people who lurked on occasion or whatever, they don't matter. Eventually they, or people like them, will find you. They're all kind of interchangeable anyway.
I mean we're talking about fucking internet forums here. All people on the internet are, to an extent, pretty interchangeable. You don't have real relationships with most of them, you have shadow relationships with them. The whole nature of the Internet just inhibits anything else. The majority of the IC community is a tight-knit group that's linked and crosslinked through TGQ and livejournal and LPN and DPS and so on and so forth. Those people, yeah, the CORE USERS, are at the center of this.
I mean, shit totally changes. The ic forums went through a shitload of iterations. People were shaken off each time. It doesn't matter. What we want to do is create an ENVIRONMENT that fosters DISCUSSION ABOUT VIDEOGAMES that we, the CORE USERS, think is INTERESTING. This ENVIRONMENT will ATTRACT people and lead to a community that is like, ALIVE in that SPECIAL INTERNET WAY.
To do anything else is fucking backwards. To say you want to "relocate the community" is just kind of fucked up - it's not about the people, it's about the INTELLIGENT VIDEOGAME DISCUSSION we supposedly have. We want to make sure we do a good job of creating a neat place where that kind of talk can THRIVE, so NEW BLOOD can come in and we can all have like, you know, BIG DISCUSSIONS ABOUT SHIT. We can talk about METROIDVANIA OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL WE DIE. That's the goal. New people can come in and they can talk about Metroidvania too.
I mean, like, shit, dude. It's not about RELOCATING THE COMMUNITY and making it FAMILIAR - those are not just impossible to achieve but also totally futile, like, there's no advantage of doing that. If you ROOT YOURSELF in the PAST YOU CAN'T LIKE FREE YOUR MIND, MAN. If you try to reach out to people who probably don't care you miss the new people who probably care. Insert Credit forums were never great because of a specific group of unknown occasional posters and lurkers; they were great because of the CAMARADERIE that the SMALL CORE GROUP of people who PASSIONATELY CARED ABOUT VIDEOGAMES had, the sense of PSEUDOINTELLECTUAL MASTURBATION. This CAMARADERIE that we feel is what created and INSPIRED us to give the ic forums that SPECIAL VIBE THAT THEY HAD.
We just WANT THE VIBE. That should be the goal
tO LIKE, RECAPTURE THE MAGIC, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THE SPIRIT. THE INEFFABLE THING right?
Otherwise you are creating a DEAD FORUM and it won't be an inspiring place it'll be like fucking RESIDENT EVIL, with all these FUCKING ZOMBIES, only there'll just be one BIG ZOMBIE, and that will the NEO IC FORUMS, kind of a sad pale imitation of some other shit. I mean don't do that man. We have a chance to do some new awesome conceptual shit that we haven't done before. The goal is TALKING ABOUT VIDEOGAMES, not trying to reassemble a TOTALLY ARBITRARY COMMUNITY THAT WOULD HAVE CHANGED ANYWAY. That's just silly dude man.
*Toups I'm just playing you know I love you _________________
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LegatoB .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Well put, ajulta. |
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GcDiaz .
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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thatbox wrote: |
Changing the default color scheme should not be an option ;_; |
Yea, ikaruga.co.uk used to allow for polarity changes, but somehow it went terribly wrong. Put it to a vote, or solicit samples from the more aesthetically-inclined. IC's default scheme was novel if nothing else, but we manchildren can learn to live without it.
Also I third the "you can never go home again" sentiment. Whatever new forum we settle on will have baggage like a JFK redcap at Christmas. |
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Nana Komatsu weak sauce
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Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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ajutla wrote: | Bitch I'ma kill you.
*Toups I'm just playing you know I love you |
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