The Gamer's Quarter

[Harveyjames]

I find the whole concept of 'in character' sort of crazy.

[Lackey]

How so? I just mean playing with the story and not deliberately subverting it.
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| Little bird fighting against a bat sect game |

[Harveyjames]

Just that all the actions available to you should be acceptable as behaviour that defines the character you're playing. That's why most of these characters are such a blank slate, so you can project your own personality on them. Either that, or they're somewhat mischievious and silly (Mario 64, Duke Nukem 3D) since the mechanics of the game mostly just allow you to jump about, hurt people and break things anyway.

Bascially, you shouldn't include a punch button if your game is about a man who never punches anyone.

It's an interesting line of thought, though. Guybrush Threepwood is required to take anything that's not nailed down to win the game, but he's never said to be a thief. He is however something of a clown, breaking the fourth wall and so on, so his casual thievery can just be seen as another aspect of his irreverence. He's a tool for you to flout social conventions, through your choosing the silly answers in conversations, setting someone's lizard free, stealing a hammer. However, I always thought of him as a passive observer to the crazy things the player makes him do. I never thought of Guybrush as the kind of person to set someone's lizard free, nail someone into a coffin or saw someone's peg leg off, even as I was making him do those things. And unlike Gordon Freeman tipping a bin over, you have to do those things to win the game.

Hmm.

[Cycle]

Well, Guybrush DOES want to be a pirate, and pirates have to get their hands dirty now and then. Actually, they usually insist.

[Nana Komatsu]

Having now played Half Life 2, I think that if this is the best example of storytelling in games that is held up (say, "raised the bar"), I feel sad for entire medium.

[Ketch]

[dhex]

the storytelling leap - and i'd call it more of a refinement than leap - with hl2 is that the story unfolds solely with your play, and is explained only through your interactions with various setpieces. it just happens to be the best refined leap of the last five years or so.

if all games were crafted as well as hl2 with regards to their execution, there might be a lot fewer game companies. they'd become unnecessary.
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[dessgeega]

[dhex]

hence refinement!

also, quality control out the ass.
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[Harveyjames]

Prince of Persia and Strider don't really have so much of a story, though. You're in Russia in the future AND THEN A ROBOT GORILLA COME ALONG.

I guess with Prince of Persia you do really feel like you're part of the story at all times, simple though it may be. It does rely on cutscenes however. Not that that has to be a bad thing, but it's the key difference between it and Half-Life.

[dessgeega]

[Ketch]

Okay so, maybe the ultimate in 'game' storytelling would be to fool the player into thinking that the things that happen are reacting to the player's presence. And to implement AI enemies that ebb-and-flow dynamically. So that the characters send out patrols looking for the player, and become more aggressive if the player becomes aggressive. (Like Metal Gear Solid 3).

And instead of presenting the game as "this is already here, deal with it" it would pretend that the player had summoned the enemies. Ie. instead of finding a giant robot boss character, they would see it scanning the hills for them... and only when they had to cross the open ground to their final objective would it come to fight them. The player would be made to feel that they had been causing enough of a threat to the enemy that they had incurred some serious opposition.

Or, maybe we need to get away from the idea of 'fighting' being story, or THE way of resolving conflict. In other words to stop making games as though they were Arnie films (ie. either Commando, Terminator 1/2, or Conan the Destroyer).

[Harveyjames]

[grumbel]

[Dracko]

[dhex]

[Dracko]

And to be fair, most games are nothing like those films at all.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Nana Komatsu]

[dessgeega]

[Nana Komatsu]

I don't really see myself as taking the role of the protagonist in story based games, for the most part. FPS games are probably different because there is no on-screen avatar to control, but there have been other non-FPS games where the protagonist says nothing (allowing you to project whatever image of yourself onto him or her?) like Dragon Quest VIII.

This is probably where I differ from the norm.

[dhex]

well, if they're cutscenes, they're cutscenes you can walk away from. they're also rather minor, even in episode 1 and your adventures with alyx the tank.

ravenholm is where the sweetness really kicks in, for what its worth.

but i mean, the game isn't going to fit your critera for groundbreaking, because if you're not an fps fan, you really won't see what the big deal is. i am a huge fps fan (of sorts, as (i don't play multiplayer online) and a pc game fan in general, and i see hl2 as part of a very long tradition. it just happens to culminate in awesomeness.

and the voice acting is totally sweet.

i don't identify with gordon freeman either, but i don't identify in character with any games i play. i don't have to identify with the guy, cause like, he's not real. etc.

also, with fps games, you're not supposed to relate to the character, you're supposed to relate to the enemies (or npcs) because that's all you can actually see. as a chain of experiences hl2 is unprecented in its quality, and since that's what i look for in a game story, it is the creme of the cream.

[Nana Komatsu]

[grumbel]

[Harveyjames]

[The Great Unwashed]

[Ketch]

Best story in a game*: Pheonix Wright (okay, I've only played to chapter 3.. and I am not saying that it is 'brilliant' but it is good, clever and enjoyable).

The problem is that Pheonix Wright isn't really a game, and more of audio-visual comic with Multiple choice questions.