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The Gamer's Quarter
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dessgeega
loves your favorite videogame
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 6563
Location: bohan
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 Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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| simplicio wrote: | | That's easily my favorite of the series right there. |
likewise!
i just scored 92 in speed spin, which is kind of exciting for me.
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I still haven't played Twisted. We didn't get it over here, perhaps because it would have been too expensive to produce for what is seen as a niche title? We did get Yoshi's Shit and Roll, however. |
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The Great Unwashed
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Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 359
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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| Posted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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I ALSO ENJOYED THE GRAVITY GUN
I FELT IT WAS PERFECTLY BELIEVEABLE WITHIN THE DEFINED CONSTRAINTS OF A HIGHLY ADVANCED TECHNOLOGICAL WORLD
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Lockeownzj00
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Gonna quote something waaay back in the thread.
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Wrong, everything wants you to suspend your disbelief. |
I think that's completely and utterly disingenuous. Obviously every game seeks to achieve that to some level. But the way Half-Life (1) tries to engage you at the very beginning by having you walk around the facility is on a totally different level from Mario. Indeed, the more basic a game gets, the easier it is to imagine the characters and the aesthetic as anything really.
Why is it that by now the 2D platformer, unless extremely polished, is pretty much by default hackneyed? Because it's been done so many time, it doesn't feel good anymore. Megaman XPZ: 96th Attack? Any handheld movie game? I mean, they're basically taking the exact same structure and just giving it a facelift every time. This level of immersion is nil.
I remember an article I read way back about realism in art and videogames--basically the postulation was that when something is trying too hard to be realistic and ends up looking immaculate or bubbly (re: Xenosaga), it has the opposite effect and removes us at least a few levels down from the immersion.
I think Counter-Strike Source is quite immersive. Specifically playing cs_office, it is now actually decorated with believable miscellaneous objects, the snow fluctuates in size, the carpet practically feels fuzzy...but what's stopping it from going all the way are the deaths. Rag-doll deaths are pretty freakin' awesome, but they're still nothing like a real death. It's funny how with each one of these innovations comes a whole slew of new problems. So it is that youre enemies and friends die in the most laughable and unrealistic of positions, kind of removing that extra layer that could be there. Since every "point" in there body is a joint, basically, they end up looking like they were in the middle of a dance routine when they croaked, not a firefight. |
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Suspension of disbelief and immersion are two different things.
Suspension of disbelief is a measure of the coherence of the world presented in the text (in this case, a game), i.e. how little the text does to remind you that it's a text.
Immersion is how well you can project yourself into the world presented in the text.
They're related, of course, since you can't have an incoherent game that's very immersive; however, you can still have a game like the Mario games where the amount of immersion is fairly low and you can maintain a perfect suspension of disbelief because the world is so tightly designed and presented. |
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Lockeownzj00
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Suspension of disbelief, however, as a concept, is only really applicable in situations where you should beileve, but you don't. Nobody points out the inaccuracies and impossibilities of Mario's world, but they do of Gordon Freemans. It's just irrelevant to apply it to simplistic games. |
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think it is. People don't like to talk about it because it's harder to tell because the world doesn't resemble or reflect our own; it does affect how we experience the games. When something's "cheap" or "broken" that's an issue with coherency.
And again, it's not the impossibilities and inaccuracies of Mario's world as compared to our own, it's the impossibilities and inaccuracies of the game relative to the internal laws of the game itself. |
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Lockeownzj00
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, internal consistency. But in these games there are very few things to be inconsistent. Story? Not much of it. Graphics? As long as they weren't made by 20 different artists, they're going to be aesthetically consistent (same with music). Gameplay? Well, unless he jumps differently in certain levels, or one enemy takes 10 hits more than the usual and ends up being cumbersome...there's really very few ways to fail at this with a simplistic game. It comes down to aesthetic. Mario presents a charming style and world which we are ready to accept and frolick in. This isn't to say it's easy to pull all these things off--rather, the austerity with which a game like Mario (I'm thinking originals, here) pulls "it" off is quite impressive.
With a game like Half-Life 2, there are a lot more factors at stake for this suspension of disbelief, which is why I'm saying it's more relevant to apply it to a more complex game. |
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Cryoburner
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Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Lockeownzj00 wrote: |
I think Counter-Strike Source is quite immersive. Specifically playing cs_office, it is now actually decorated with believable miscellaneous objects, the snow fluctuates in size, the carpet practically feels fuzzy...but what's stopping it from going all the way are the deaths. Rag-doll deaths are pretty freakin' awesome, but they're still nothing like a real death. It's funny how with each one of these innovations comes a whole slew of new problems. So it is that youre enemies and friends die in the most laughable and unrealistic of positions, kind of removing that extra layer that could be there. Since every "point" in there body is a joint, basically, they end up looking like they were in the middle of a dance routine when they croaked, not a firefight. |
I don't think the ragdoll physics in CS:Source are really that bad. They're tend to work well enough, especially considering that the game has been out for two years already. There are far more noticeable lapses of realism in that game anyway.
Take for instance the hostages, who lack anything remotely resembling AI. They just stand there, in the middle of a firefight, staring blankly ahead. You can shoot them multiple times, and they'll continue to stand stationary, emitting an unenthusiastic vocalization. Eventually, they'll fall over dead, while their comrades continue to stand nearby without even flinching. To match the graphical level of realism in that game, the hostages should at least duck for cover while being shot at. Maybe they could even attempt to get away on their own after being left alone for long enough. As it is, the hostages greatly detract from the realism of the situation. |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Ragdoll physics are more realistic than given credit for, that is, when they give the models any weight at all.
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Lockeownzj00 wrote: | Yes, internal consistency. But in these games there are very few things to be inconsistent. Story? Not much of it. Graphics? As long as they weren't made by 20 different artists, they're going to be aesthetically consistent (same with music). Gameplay? Well, unless he jumps differently in certain levels, or one enemy takes 10 hits more than the usual and ends up being cumbersome...there's really very few ways to fail at this with a simplistic game. It comes down to aesthetic. Mario presents a charming style and world which we are ready to accept and frolick in. This isn't to say it's easy to pull all these things off--rather, the austerity with which a game like Mario (I'm thinking originals, here) pulls "it" off is quite impressive.
With a game like Half-Life 2, there are a lot more factors at stake for this suspension of disbelief, which is why I'm saying it's more relevant to apply it to a more complex game. |
I just tend to be a literalist fuckhead when it comes to these sort of things. Half-Life 2 is, generally, more relevant than Super Mario Bros. 3 when it comes to discussion of suspension of disbelief. And you didn't say that it was "more relevant", you stated that it was irrelevant to apply it to more abstract games, which is what I disagreed with.
Because suspension of disbelief is part of every game. (And every text, to be entirely pedantic.) |
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Lockeownzj00
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Here's your realistc ragdoll physics.
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Take for instance the hostages, who lack anything remotely resembling AI. They just stand there, in the middle of a firefight, staring blankly ahead. You can shoot them multiple times, and they'll continue to stand stationary, emitting an unenthusiastic vocalization. Eventually, they'll fall over dead, while their comrades continue to stand nearby without even flinching. To match the graphical level of realism in that game, the hostages should at least duck for cover while being shot at. Maybe they could even attempt to get away on their own after being left alone for long enough. As it is, the hostages greatly detract from the realism of the situation. |
The hostages are such a minute part of the game, though. I mean, I agree, to a certain extent. They're a lot better than the ones in the original, that's for sure.
But at a certain point, if "making it more realistic" entails hindering the gameplay, then you're not making a game anymore. If hostages ran away after being neglected for a few minutes, there'd be a whole metagame of "chase the fucking hostages" that would not only get on everyone's nerves but detract from the standard firefights. I really, truly am all for immersion and such, but it still is a game; this is a situation where suspension of disbelief is necessary.
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Ragdoll physics are more realistic than given credit for, that is, when they give the models any weight at all. |
Like I said--I love ragdoll. It just still looks funny. There are patches out there to make the physics more realistic because certain fans found them inadequate.
| Quote: | | And you didn't say that it was "more relevant", you stated that it was irrelevant to apply it to more abstract games, which is what I disagreed with. |
What is the need for suspension of disbelief in Tetris? There is none, because it doesn't apply. The only thing you might suspend yourbelief in is the outside world, if you play too much. I guess, if you wanted to try realy hard, you could say, "accepting that these blocks which have no discernable origin fall from the sky and inexplicably cancel each other out when formed in rows" is some form of it, but that's just fuckin' pretentious. Pragmatically, the concept doesn't apply and is irrelevant.
Abstract != simple, btw. |
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Scratchmonkey
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Joined: 02 Mar 2005
Posts: 1439
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Lockeownzj00 wrote: | | What is the need for suspension of disbelief in Tetris? There is none, because it doesn't apply. The only thing you might suspend yourbelief in is the outside world, if you play too much. I guess, if you wanted to try realy hard, you could say, "accepting that these blocks which have no discernable origin fall from the sky and inexplicably cancel each other out when formed in rows" is some form of it, but that's just fuckin' pretentious. Pragmatically, the concept doesn't apply and is irrelevant. |
That's comparing to reality again though. Tetris doesn't have any problems with suspension of disbelief because it's really simple and really abstract. If blocks randomly moved upwards, yes, then you would have a problem.
Actually, most of the modern versions of Tetris have an issue with how they handle rotating the blocks because of weirdness in terms of who controls the license and thus determines the mechanics of every Tetris game. People are fairly upset about this and to a certain degree, I think it's due to suspension of disbelief, in that the way it's handled "isn't Tetris".
| Quote: | | Abstract != simple, btw. |
I did that entirely intentionally. I just have a problem calling games like Super Mario Bros. 3 and such "simple". They're not, especially. They're abstract, though! |
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| simplicio wrote: | | I still pine for the days when Odama was going to be playable on the bongos. That was such a severe letdown. |
To be fair, the only thing the bongos were going to be used for was that the second player could boost the morale of the army by playing them.
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dhex
Breeder
Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 6319
Location: brooklyn, Nev Yiork
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I love ragdoll because it looks funny |
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dark steve
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Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 1110
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| dead men worming down the stairs |
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Harveyjames
the meteor kid
Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 3636
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| Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| The thing about good ragdoll physics is that when it's there, you don't notice it. Except when I shot a headcrab in HL2 and it landed on the stairs, and bumped down to the bottom. It was brilliant. |
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Lackey
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1107
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Anyway, the Super Mario games have been becoming increasingly inconsistent over time because they just add things as they need them for each particular game. What is the Mushroom Kingdom really? They've got an awful lot of modern sports facilities for a monarchic kingdom where everyone lives in huts. Wait, do they still? They did in the cartoon.
And I'm still troubled by one thing, is everything with eyes actually alive or is that just how they look? I mean like the clouds and bushes and stuff. And what's the difference between the happy-faced bushes and the regular ones?
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 6279
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| Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga is really, really good.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Mister Toups wrote: | | Shapermc wrote: | | Also, I am kind of tired of people claiming that long term play on the Wii will make your arms tired. Seriously. |
The best is when analysts use that as an argument for why the wii will fail. |
Demonstration of the Wii that shows about how active you will be for most games
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Lockeownzj00
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
Posts: 214
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| Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I've always been very hopeful for Wii, but recently I've been in a slump in that regard. Consider my hope renwed! |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm still not seeing where the excitement comes for all this. The DS' concept of dual screens is more insane, and yet it's been better exploited. Innovation won't lie in a wand, it will lie in the games, as always (And designing a console around something less powerful than the X-Box with the new generation looming won't help much). And so far, nothing of note has been even announced for this under-achieving platform.
Maybe when Goichi Suda's new game is shown in action. All I'm seeing here is dubious responses, unnatural controls, an irony for a console promoting itself as achieving something Sony managed over a decade ago, and, expectedly, swings and twists which translates into programmed animations and monkeyed excuses.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Dracko wrote: | | All I'm seeing here is dubious responses, unnatural controls, an irony for a console promoting itself as achieving something Sony managed over a decade ago, and, expectedly, swings and twists which translates into programmed animations and monkeyed excuses. |
What?
Anyways, that game isn't the most innovative or original idea coming to the console. It is pretty much a regular game translated into the Wii controller. I was just using it as an example of hand movement.
I think the Wii is equally insane. They both take older concepts and turn them into gaming consoles. The Wii uses a mouse/lazer pointer, the DS uses palm touch technology. Neither are new as you have previously attemted to drive into us, but it is the mainstream implementation of such that makes it interesting. It give developers a whole lot more to mess with: an entire new set of tools. Sure we are going to see obvious shit like Marvel and FPS game, but some really good stuff will come of this one day.
Worrying about arm strain isn't really an issue.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932
"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!" |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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PlayStation wasn't mainstream enough?
| Quote: | | It give developers a whole lot more to mess with: an entire new set of tools. |
Not really. At least not any more than any other console. It certainly won't have as much power to back them up over the PS3 or 360. A mouse is more intuitive, familiar and precise.
You ask Joe Average, someone who isn't into games but owns a PS2 and enjoys his SSX or what-have-yous, he's likely already familiar with controllers. Chances are, so are his parents. Nintendo's assumption that video games are inaccessible, and sticking a questionnable control scheme that has already been evidenced to be less precise than a mouse, something people interact with daily, despite a decade of mainstream recognition, the death of the hardcore scene, and Sony and Microsoft releasing popular consoles and games to pretty much anyone, of multiple ages, is not only laughably arrogant, it's just plain clueless.
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SuperWes
Updated the banners, but not his title
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3725
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Dracko wrote: | | PlayStation wasn't mainstream enough? |
Not really. It was a specific kind of mainstream. In the US, Sony chose a specific market (the biggest one, 16-25 year old men) and pushed their system like a fucking crack dealer to that one market. Sure, there may have been a few Crash Bandicoots and a Parappa the Rapper, but these residual games were by and large the minority compared to the Tomb Raiders, Maddens, Gran Turismos, WWFs, Final Fantasy VIIs, Resident Evils, and Metal Gear Solids. In Japan things were a bit different with girly games and rhythm games like DDR and Doko Demo Isshou becoming big hits, but in the US there was a clearly defined market. The target market just happened to grow big enough that it encompassed an unprecendented percentage of these people (who also happened to have enough money to buy their own games).
In the US, this market moved on to PS2s and has been pretty much happy, albeit it lost a few members to the Xbox, which strongly went after the exact same market. In Japan, the broader market that bought PS1s also bought PS2s, but other than Dragon Quest VIII and the Final Fantasy games, the people who buy games as a phenomenon rather than as a ritual haven't really had any hits to cling to. This is one of the reasons that the Japanese gaming industry started going so far downhill a few years back. If people aren't regularly reminded that games are fun, they sort of forget. With the PS2, Sony may have sold these people systems, but beyond the DVD player the closest thing Sony gave them to a must-have hit was the Dynasty Warriors series, which is unfortunately the most popular original series the Japanese PS2 ever saw. With the PS2, Sony lost the non-core audience, but it wasn't for lack of trying. Games like Katamari Damacy and Kuma Uta would theoretically appeal to just about anyone, but they're a little too weird and not close enough to the mainstream for anyone to latch onto them.
Seeing where the PS2 failed to capture this audience, Nintendo came in with the DS and did the unthinkable: they reminded non-gamers that they actually like games. Brain Training and Nintendogs are exactly the kind of games that non-gamers relate to. They can be described to perfection without using any pre-requisite gamer lingo. They're not Role Playing Games, Action Games, or Sims (even though they sort of are) - they're Petting Dogs and Taking IQ Tests. For a game to become mainstream it needs to be played by the people who play Solitare at work and play Snood in their free time. It needs to be something that someone can have fun with even if they don't even consider it their hobby. People go to movies without saying their hobby is watching movies, but I'm not sure the same can be said about games. Nintendo is trying to fix this, and whether or not their successful will be 50% marketing and 50% having the games to prove that the marketing isn't just smoke and mirrors.
Betcha we see Nintendogs on the Wii in early 2007, and something totally new that attracts those same type of people later in the same year.
-Wes
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Lockeownzj00
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Joined: 16 Aug 2005
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:56 am Post subject: |
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Not really. At least not any more than any other console. It certainly won't have as much power to back them up over the PS3 or 360. A mouse is more intuitive, familiar and precise. |
What's brilliant about Wii's controller is that they've taken the concept of a mouse, a laser pointer, and a joystick, and actually managed to combine it into one device without fucking it up. At least they're not Microsoft or Sony saying, "shit, some of the games we released are unplayable without a keyboard and mouse, here's an add-on. That just won't happen with Nintendo.
| Quote: | | Nintendo's assumption that video games are inaccessible |
Is this stunning analysis derived from the years Nintendo has overtly directed its marketing towards the idea that anyone and everyone not only can but should play games?
I'm relieved that it isn't living up to the ridiculous mythos that only the critics have built up for it. It's an innovative concept at its heart, but reading the critics has you concocting images of afroninja and star wars. In reality, how tame the reality really is made me much more hopeful. |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Lockeownzj00 wrote: | | Quote: |
Not really. At least not any more than any other console. It certainly won't have as much power to back them up over the PS3 or 360. A mouse is more intuitive, familiar and precise. |
What's brilliant about Wii's controller is that they've taken the concept of a mouse, a laser pointer, and a joystick, and actually managed to combine it into one device without fucking it up. At least they're not Microsoft or Sony saying, "shit, some of the games we released are unplayable without a keyboard and mouse, here's an add-on. That just won't happen with Nintendo. |
Oh for Christ's sake, like Nintendo haven't released peripherals before. Or don't intend to with this controller. By all rights, the damn thing should be a peripheral in itself.
Without fucking it up? I don't know. I'll see when it's available. This gameplay footage though isn't promising. It seems to play like it is: An intrusive and stilted concept, with dodgy responses. Are we so quick to forget Die by the Sword?
| Lockeownzj00 wrote: | | Quote: | | Nintendo's assumption that video games are inaccessible |
Is this stunning analysis derived from the years Nintendo has overtly directed its marketing towards the idea that anyone and everyone not only can but should play games? |
It's all here. They're the ones making such lofty claims. They haven't achieved what they set out to do. The competition beat them to it. Nintendo's philosophy is one of denial (Just recently, Reggie announced they weren't trying to compete with Sony of Microsoft, which is tough shit; pretending market realities don't exist won't make them vanish) and practically desperation at this point. They haven't and won't "make games fun again" with a fucking controller which will likely befuddle your grand-parent or your frat boy rather than appear intuitive to them. By nature of the statement alone, they can't do it, because it's a fucking stupid statement to make in light of how popularised games have become. People play them at home, at work, on their mobile phones, whatever. Video games are alive and well, and people certainly wouldn't buy them if they weren't entertaining. If Nintendo really was intent on doing something as insane as that, they'd start by making good games first, not glorified mini-games most people wouldn't set an eye on.
Funny how little we've heard of the supposed game development functionalities too. The 360 has them beat on that anyway.
| Lockeownzj00 wrote: | | I'm relieved that it isn't living up to the ridiculous mythos that only the critics have built up for it. It's an innovative concept at its heart, but reading the critics has you concocting images of afroninja and star wars. In reality, how tame the reality really is made me much more hopeful. |
Now you're glad it's a dull idea? Well, good for you. Meanwhile, I'm going to get excited over practical innovations, like, say, the 360's media centre, which can be actually termed as wanting to be popular for all including non-gamers, its Live Arcade functions, and its willingness to give indie developers a go.
The more I hear about, the more the Wii reminds about those little, brand-X controllers you could buy in corner shops, stocked up on classic arcade ROMs, for a tenner.
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Shapermc
Hot Sake!
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| Dracko wrote: | Well, good for you. Meanwhile, I'm going to get excited over practical innovations, like, say, the 360's media centre, which can be actually termed as wanting to be popular for all including non-gamers, its Live Arcade functions, and its willingness to give indie developers a go.
The more I hear about, the more the Wii reminds about those little, brand-X controllers you could buy in corner shops, stocked up on classic arcade ROMs, for a tenner. |
Media center is kind of crap and too complicated for most people to set up. It also involves a lot of money if you don't already have a Media Center OS.
Live Arcade's games aren't really that exciting when it comes down to it. Some of the more interesting games end up looking terrible and you can tell that little care went into the ports (as in Konami's games unfortunatly). Nintendo has also stated that they will make it easier for smaller companies to produce games, I belive they anounced it at GDC '05, quite a while before MS. They just haven't really explained how they are going to do this.
Also, while it may be easier for people to create games for the 360, MS has not made it clear how easy it will be for most people to download them. It could be a very segregated thing with most people never seeing the games that come out. If that is the case then they might as well release a PC game.
Anyways, I am not really arguing with you, more playing devil's advocate. You have good points (eventhough I think you aren't taking the Wiimotes capabilites seriously), there are just good counter-points as well.
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ApM
Admin Rockstar
Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 1210
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| Dracko wrote: | | Are we so quick to forget Die by the Sword? |
Well, it was pretty forgettable. |
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Lackey
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Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1107
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I always thought it looked pretty awesome; my curiosity got the better of me and I tracked down a demo this morning. Performance is bizarre before you understand the controls, but once you do they are very flexible. Pity it still feels so unrefined.
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Cryoburner
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Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| Dracko wrote: | I'm still not seeing where the excitement comes for all this. The DS' concept of dual screens is more insane, and yet it's been better exploited. Innovation won't lie in a wand, it will lie in the games, as always (And designing a console around something less powerful than the X-Box with the new generation looming won't help much). And so far, nothing of note has been even announced for this under-achieving platform.
Maybe when Goichi Suda's new game is shown in action. All I'm seeing here is dubious responses, unnatural controls, an irony for a console promoting itself as achieving something Sony managed over a decade ago, and, expectedly, swings and twists which translates into programmed animations and monkeyed excuses. |
Where did you hear of the Wii being less powerful than an X-Box? From everything I've heard, its graphical capabilities will be greater than the original X-Box, but less than a 360. Another thing worth noting is that all 360 games are required to run properly at HD resolutions, which means the system's graphical capabilities are wasted for the vast majority of people with standard sets. While the 360 must render over 2,000,000 pixels per frame, the Wii renders fewer than 350,000, allowing it to do more with a less powerful graphics chipset.
This Red Steel demonstration actually got me a little interested in it. Prior clips and screenshots didn't impress me much, but this made it look as though it might be a decent game. It will be interesting to see whether the finished game plays well though. |
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Dracko
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Joined: 10 Oct 2005
Posts: 2613
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Shapermc wrote: | | I think you aren't taking the Wiimotes capabilites seriously. |
I'll concede that this is quite possible. However, I've never put much faith in Nintendo, nor do I trust their marketing or rhetoric. If Nintendo manages to release a good game, so much the better, but I personally find that rare and an event in itself.
Still, all things considered, I'd be more ready to give the Wii a try over the PS3 at this point. I just don't expect it to change much at all in light of the competition.
| Cryoburner wrote: | | From everything I've heard, its graphical capabilities will be greater than the original X-Box, but less than a 360. Another thing worth noting is that all 360 games are required to run properly at HD resolutions, which means the system's graphical capabilities are wasted for the vast majority of people with standard sets. |
I'll readily admit to gettting carried away on that point. Still, not much of a next-gen platform, I'd say. As for HD, I realise that's true, but I'm thinking HD is pretty much the future of television and a worthy investment. This is a debatable advance I realise, but I'd rather see a company take a risk rather than deny it entirely. Especially one bent on being innovative and riding the waves.
P.S. Die by the Sword is amazing(ly flawed), Brain Age is grade school with dazzling lights and I have pets enough.
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