The Gamer's Quarter

[Shapermc]

So, I picked up Play magazine (which is currently the top of the crop) and ran into this little section about platforming games. It breaks them up into Top 25 3D and 2D, as well as top Ten eight bit. The list is as follows:

[Shapermc]

Also: if you are getting a forbidden error that means you are talking about Psychonauts. For what ever reason our forum hates this game and you need to write it like this:

[dessgeega]

not that there's any point to discussing top-XX lists, but super mario world in the number 1 position invalidates these lists automatically.
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[dark steve]

I suppose the case could be made that JSRF is more platform-y than JGR.

Questionable 2D picks: Astal and Act Raiser? Did the Play editors just read about these in other magazines or what?

[dessgeega]

wait, isn't faithless a play editor?
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[Shapermc]

[dessgeega]

oh, in that case this list is the best ever.

inspired choices! A++
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[SuperWes]

I'm pretty sure this is just a Halverson list. It looks like his doing.

I can usually appreciate his tastes, but they're nowhere near what anyone could call definitive. Tork is an average game and its existance on this list (along with several others) does more to show how little progress has been made in the 3D platformer genre than it does about the game itself. If anything, this list proves that it's a rare occurrance that anyone does anything truly outstanding within the genre, and it needs to either die or someone needs to start trying harder.

Also: Actraiser and Mario World are both fucking awesome.

-Wes
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[Dracko]

Super Mario World was a clumsy, ugly thing, and doesn't hold a candle to Yoshi's Island, let alone Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Lockeownzj00]

Hey--these lists aren't end-all be-alls; their exact purpose is to stir debates like this.

Anyhoo.

I think the 3D list is pretty solid. It's got some 'hrms?' in there, but it's Top 25, not Top 5, so, there's latitude.

I can't just disregard their decisions so easily. Crash Bandicoot, 4? I am very disdainful of that, but then again--surely there is a reason. Maybe it has a historical importance that I was unaware of? Maybe it brought platforming to a mainstream (which doesn't entirely make sense because platforming was one of the earliest, if not only original genres of gaming. then again--the image, along with the image of the playstation may be a viable argument). Not that the game wasn't fun; on the contrary, I enjoyed it when playing at my neighbor's when I was younger. Maybe it's my hazy, abused memory, but I don't remember it standing out all that much. Then again, I was a rabid Nintendo fanboy back in the day.

BK & BT are much deserved on there. I absolutely adore the series and have many fond memories. They took what Mario 64 (kind of) pioneered and refined it to the umpteenth degree, all with that magical but not overly sugar-coated layer of silliness.

I also questioned the lack of JSR at first, too, but then, I've never thought of JSR/F as a platfomer (never thought of it as much of anything, really--cel-shaded graffiti sim? haha). I think JSRF must just be more platformy.

Was Spyro that good? Never played it. Or rather, fleetingly. Same with Billy Hatcher--rented it and played it for like, two seconds (although it looks nice enough).

I also don't mind the lumping of series--it's just unfair to let 3 games from the same series dominate the list. They also would only lump them if they considered all of them to be outstanding and a solid representation of the quality that series brings. That being said, it's appropriate, although maybe SOTN should've been written first there, just as a subtle promotion of its 'score..'

One thing I will say, though, is how generic modern platformers have gotten thanks to the "Jak and Daxter" standard to the point where it just feels pointless playing them.

Although, I haven't played a lick of Ratchet and Clank, and supposedly it's pretty slick. Sly Cooper's got a rad style, too, although I've only played the first.

Oh yeah, and Psychonauts--never beat (ashamedly). I played the first few "worlds," but I my impression is that it belongs there on top. Tim Schafer is god. But I kept thinking how clunky it looked with the ps2's hardware chugging along, struggling to render these things. Either it should have been stylistically cel-shaded (not with obnoxious black lines), or put on a better system (although I haven't played the PC one, that should theoretically work better).

(edit: ahh i was wondering what that post had meant. what's up with that?)

[dessgeega]

on the subject of mario, where are super mario land and how about super mario bros.? doki doki panic would have been a good choice too.

toejam & earl 2 doesn't get enough respect.
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[helicopterp]

I have a number of problems with these lists. The most glaring error is psychonauts at the top of the 3-D list. I am playing this game right now, and it's really tiresome. I have put in three hours and haven't done anything yet except listen to way too much (though mostly snappy) dialogue and been forced to collect to many things so that I can 'learn' to do too many things that I have to equip and unequip and all of which adds up to way too many buttons. It's really frustrating! So far, the game's incredible art style and character design are the only things keeping me playing.

Also, grouping SM 1, 2, & 3 in the 8-bits and SMW & Yoshi's Island in the '2-d' lists is unforgivable. These games just aren't at all like each other.

I really shouldn't get involved in this discussion. I'm glad I said my peace about psychonauts (which I am trying very hard to enjoy!), but I feel like this kind of "name everything remotely worthy so that no one gets too offended" is the equivalent of public polling on a slow news day. Shaper, did the guy write anything to go along with the lists? That could make them somewhat worthwhile.
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Like you thought you'd seen copter perverts before. They were nothing compared to this one.

[JasonMoses]

NES Ghosts 'n Goblins at the top of the 8-bit list? What the fuck?

[Mr. Mechanical]

Super Mario Bros. 3 gets a mention on the 8-bit list but not on the over top 25 2D list? What the hell mate, etc.

Uh, anyways, yeah. List threads are kind of boring.

[simplicio]

2-D list lacks the Ninja 5-O.

Failure.

[Cryoburner]

[dark steve]

[Dracko]

[Shapermc]

For the record there is no explination for anything really (except what makes a platformer: which was basically summed up with "if the primary mechanic of the game involved jumping" or something just as simple) All three lists pluse a bit about the definition of platformer all fit on one page.

[J.Goodwin]

I find it astonishing that Blinx (which seems to be widely regarded as a solid but decidedly average platformer) is up there ahead of some real classics like Jet Set, Prince of Persia, etc. And Bonk's Adventure doesn't belong anywhere near this list (Revenge or Big Adventure, certainly, but not Adventure). Legendary Axe 1/2 should at least get a tip of the hat before some of these games, but don't. No Adventure Island? At least Wonder Boy gets on the list.

But what hurts the most, honestly, is that Impossimole is no where to be seen.

===

Happy slander corner:

P-Nauts was on a better console: Xbox.
Rayman 2 > Mario64.
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Gamertag - FalcomAdol -- Don't Click Here 触手
Playing - Ninety-Nine Nights - Xbox 360

[OtakupunkX]

I never considered JSRF a platformer. To me, that would be like calling Deus Ex a first-person-shooter.

I actually went back and tried to beat Earthworm Jim this weekend. I got stuck on the first level and stopped playing in favor of Outrun, which I came across in the local Mom and Pop game store this weekend and bought out of impulse.

Also, how did Bug! make that list, especially in front of Prince of Persia? Shame.

[Shapermc]

So, wait, no one has argued Kameo yet. I have pretty much ignored the game based on some small tidbits of comments I have heard, but it is pretty damn cheap now and I have always been a little curious about it.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

[J.Goodwin]

[friedchicken]

[ryan]

[Dracko]

[J.Goodwin]

[ApM]

[helicopterp]

[Shapermc]

[Tablesaw]

[Shapermc]

[Faithless]

We all submitted for that list, but it's very much up to Dave how things run in the end. But all the editors sent in favs, and I think the list was compiled from that, with Dave's choices counting as two votes. Maybe.

My beloved Sonic is so far down the list.

The next list is going to be a little bit more controversial, I think.
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www.call-to-adventure.com
Don't Refuse.

[Dracko]

What's the next list supposed to be about?

From what little I've read of Dave Halverson's material, he seems to specialise in frivolous and ultimately meaningless hyperbole, which laughably leaves him lost for words when a truly great, hell, good game comes along.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[SuperWes]

The thing that frustrates me about threads like these is that we're all talking about how the list is bullshit and how we can't believe he put such and such game higher than others when, in reality, this is what lists should be like. If he put up a list of the games that people are supposed to like it really wouldn't be worth reading, would it? Instead he made a list of the games that he personally likes without taking popular opinion into consideration (and if Fathless is to be believed, barely taking staff opinion into consideration).

Isn't this what reviews/lists are supposed to be? Shouldn't they reflect what the writer took away from these games rather than how well they meet a list of checkboxes that supposedly define what a good game is? If Halverson finds that difficulty is what makes games compelling for him, shouldn't it be ok for him to put Ghosts and Goblins at the top of the 2D platformer list? Isn't this a step in the right direction for openly honest, subjective gaming journalism?

Now that I've said all of that I'm going to go ahead and throw another beef out there, and this is one that I honestly want Faithless to ask Halverson: Where's Hermie Hopperhead?

-Wes
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[dessgeega]

[SuperWes]

[Dracko]

Possible. Doesn't stop him from having poor judgement and taste, or half-assing the entire thing.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Lockeownzj00]

It's a waste of time to prattle on about the futility of the list. Isn't that implicit in making one? Thanks for your brilliant philosophical insight on lists, man! I would've been trapped in that brainwashed mindset that made me think I was actually having a discussion about videogames!

It's to spur discussion. End of story.

Can the rest of the thread just be basking in the pleasant rays of nostalgia for Banjo-Kazooie?

[Shapermc]

[Dracko]

Ballsy how? This looks pretty standard and predictable. Wavering, even.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[dessgeega]

ballsy top 5 list of best platformers ever:

1. tempest
2. computer space
3. mario is missing
4. conrad's "heart of darkness"
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[Lockeownzj00]

Putting...I donno, Blinx on there could be considered ballsy.

Then again...what's also important to remember about 'lists' for art in general is that it's not always about the ridiculously high level of quality; indeed in 10001 Movies You Must See Before You Die (interesting little book, starts with beginning of cinema all the way up to 2004/5 I think), many of the movies like Battleship Potemkin aren't fantastically woven masterpiece, but were historically significant--in Potemkin's case, because of the cinematography.

So, that being said, are there any on there, which from that light, may have merit? I already offered Crash, but I know nothing about it.

[Faithless]

[Dracko]

An ideal candidate for video game reviewing and criticism, then.
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"This is the most fun I've ever had without being drenched in the blood of my enemies!"

[Lackey]

[helicopterp]

[Lockeownzj00]

[J.Goodwin]

[Dracko]