The Gamer's Quarter

SuperWes · Last edited by SuperWes on Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:44 am; edited 1 time in total

Peter Moore made the following statements in a recent interview:

"Nobody is concerned anymore about backwards compatibility. We under promised and over delivered on that. It's a very complicated thing... very complex work. I'm just stunned that we have hundreds of games that are backwards compatible."

He added: "more are coming, but at some point, you just go, there's enough, let's move on, or people aren't as worried about a game being backwards compatible - and I like to think we've upheld our end of the bargain in making at least two or maybe three hundred games backwards compat."

What the hell is up with this? As an Xbox 360 owner I know that I'm concerned about backwards compatibility. I know that every time I go into the store I'm more tempted to buy the Playstation 2 version of a game instead of the Xbox version simply because it would mean that I no longer have to keep that hunking black box under my TV. I really don't understand how backwards compatibility isn't a priority for them, but releasing classic games on Xbox Live arcade is. There's some sort of dichotomy there. Are original Xbox games not classics? Would it not be beneficial to keep people playing games on your system instead of a competitor's during the month-long lulls between interesting releases? I actually agree with Moore's PR speeches more often than not, but this one I vehemently disagree with. Microsoft has let me down as far as backwards compatibility goes and if they have already stopped supporting it at this point then they shouldn't even consider it a feature. I'd almost rather have no BC at all than the half-assed job they've done so far.

Fucking Peter Moore.

Fucking Microsoft.

Ok. Rant over.

-Wes
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Yea, I agree with the above poster.

This is the same guy from the "what about your backwards compatablitiy," "HARD HITTING FOR EGM 1up.COM OMG" interview... right?

What a fuck tard.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

wourme · . Joined: 01 Jul 2005 Posts: 362 Location: Maridia

That's a pretty interesting thing to say. I don't care about XBOX backward-compatibility because I don't have an XBOX and there are only a couple XBOX-exclusives that even casually interest me. But if the new Playstation or Nintendo weren't backward-compatible, I'd wait significantly longer to get them, rather than considering them whenever my current consoles give out (or maybe sooner). It seems that this would be a primary selling point.

macdonaldez · . Joined: 23 May 2006 Posts: 16

I concur gentlemen. I also think the issue of backwards compatibility shouldn't even be an issue, because it should be a given. It's sort of understandable in the case of the 360, since they changed graphics card manufacturers or whatever, but they are definitely doing fans a disservice.

Er, are Gunvalkyrie, JSRF and Panzer Dragoon Orta compatible with 360?...
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purplechair · . Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants

If the 360 had been fully backward compatible, I would probably have bought one at launch.

Because it's not, I ended up buying a second-hand xbox off eBay and the 360 has slid down my priority list by about 2 or 3 years.

(Given how much money they lose on hardware sales, I can't tell if that's a good or bad thing from their perspective.)

I guess if I already had an xbox and had played all the games, I wouldn't be so bothered. It's just, as a convert, I wasn't going to pass up on four years' worth of xbox games (and PS2 ports, since I don't have one) just because Microsoft told me to.

Lestrade · Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:48 am Post subject:

That does indeed seem like a whole lot of horse shit. The single exact reason I didn't buy an Xbox 360 is that it wasn't properly backwards compatible. I don't like to horde systems; if I can trade in one for another and not lose functionality, all the better. So knowing that I could play Halo 2 but not Doom 3 was a pain in the ass, and thus far I've skipped on the new console.

Is Microsoft deaf or blind or what?

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

You have got to be kidding me. How important is backwards compatibility in the first place? How often do you break out your DS and say "dammit, that's right, I can't play Dragon Warrior III on this".

Looking over the Xbox library, how many games will you honestly want to play some where down the line? Four, ten, twenty maybe? The only games the 360 can play right out of the box is Halo and Halo 2. Gee, you think that's an amazing coincidence? No, because 90-95% of all backwards compatibility concerns were over those two stupid games. Not Panzer Dragoon Orta or Call of the Chuthulu. Fable 2, DOAX2, Halo 3... Jesus, it's not like sequels are rare and "unwanted" in the modern marketplace.

Look at the most sucessful backwards compatible systems. The GBA SP, the PS2 and the Nintendo 64. The GBAs (except the Micro) had an extra processor to handle the older GBC/GB games. Without it, you can see how small the GBA could be with the Micro and the DS. The PlayStation 2 wasn't 100% backwards compatible with PS1 games until the slim model release. Finally, the N64 could play almost any SNES and NES game you slapped into it with certian illicit itemsfrom Hong Kong.

Just wait until the PSP, PS3, Wii launch. The first two will be emulating through software, like the 360. And of the three, I'd bet my money on Nintendo. Like fuckign hell if I'm going to pay for games I already own again, but it's my understanding that not all gamers collect for older systems. Every new system I got, it was not worth selling off my Saturn or PS1 or N64 for $40-50-100 whatever. I figured that down the road, if I wanted to play them again, I couldn't bet on the use games market and the first party gods. Look at how Mario was butchered on the GBA. Look at how almost-perfect Sonic emulation was in the PS2/GC/Xbox. Look at how Nintendo handled the NES ports at $20 each.

I will gladly not sell my Xbox and all the games or ever play them on my 360. Same for the PS2, GameCube and 360.
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friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

I get the idea that Microsoft half-thinks that if they say it, it must be so. So then, "gamers don't care about backward compatibility", and voila!

Yeah, it's just that attitude (along with many others reasons, granted) that kept me from buying a 360. With the PS2, backward compatibility guaranteed that anyone buying one early on had hundreds of games they could buy for it right from the start. Clearly MS was banking on the idea that prospective 360 buyers have a lot more disposable income or something.

It also makes me wonder how many XBOX owners traded in their XBOX (for $20 or so at EBGames, I'm sure) on the promise of the 360 being backward-compatible.

EDIT:

dessgeega · Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:39 am Post subject:

i wouldn't have bought an sp if it couldn't play gameboy and gameboy color games. i havn't "upgraded" to a micro because of this. (also because it's very very tiny and i already have a gameboy.)
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DaleNixon · . Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 179

They really should have gone all or nothing on this. I have quite a few Xbox games that work amazingly well on the 360. I have more that don't work at all or work with some serious glitches.

Who has the room in their entertainment center and a switchbox that can handle both the 360 and the original Xbox along with all the other consoles and other devices they have? Not me.

It's getting increasingly harder to find a new Xbox. If you want optical audio out, you're pretty much screwed as the Microsoft HD-Pack has pretty much fallen off the face of the earth. The cheap 3rd party ones they sell on ebay have some serious video quality issues.

Marco, your statement about Dragon Warrior III doesn't really apply in this case. We have brand NEW Xbox games coming out every week that don't work with the 360.

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

Ketch · . Joined: 17 Sep 2005 Posts: 420

Games I'd like to try on X-Box (as a PS2/GC owner): Oddworld Stranger's Wrath ?, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Galleon. Call of Cthulu. So I'm not buying an Xbox / 360 just yet.

SuperWes

SFC · . Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 8

So they're stopping now?

Pity, since the last time I checked, NONE of the Xbox games I own were featured on the compatibility list.

The fact that I don't own even a single one of their BC games, highlights the difference between me and teir core target audience regarding the 360. And in turn, if you follow this logic, you can assume that the 360 is not only not targeted at me, but that many if not most of the future released games are also unlikely to appeal to me. Perhaps.

I still find the 360 more promising that the PS3, but this is annoying if they're just giving it up now.

I thought they promised at one point to make all Xbox games BC? (I could be mistaken though)
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Wasn't part of the reasoning behind the naming of the 360 ... because of how it would be backwards compatable?

Anyways, I finally just bought a used GBC that I can just beat to hell for dirt cheap because I have never liked how they look on the GBA/SP. But I know when I bought my GBA I did so to play the couple GBC games I was still playing and to get Castlevania. When I got my PS2 it was also used to play PS1 games I was working on.

I knew there was no way the Gamecube was going to play anything from the previous generation, but the important thing is that I never expected it to. Microsoft on the other hand... well for a long time they were saying 100% BACKWARD COMPATABLE!!!!! Then they moved on to saying: Well... were having a few problems. Futher down the road they have basically said "fuck it, fuck them, (fuck us!)."

Here is a quote from Xbox 360 Uncloaked:

simplicio · . Joined: 03 May 2005 Posts: 1091

Relax, it's all pretty simple:

Q) How many new retail copies of Panzer Dragoon Orta sell today, leaving Microsoft with a reason to spend money to work out compatibility for it?
A) 0

I'm sure they know their own financials well enough to make a decision on whether or not patching these games will make them money. Also, they know that most folks boycotting the 360 because of this particular issue will change their minds and buy one as soon as a game or two to their taste comes out for it.

All Moore is doing here is making blanket marketing statements to shift general public perception of the issue. Remember folks, if you say something over and over, it must be true.

On the flip side, I myself resisted buying an xbox cause there were only 5 games I wanted to play on it, and the PS2 release of Outrun 2006 stole most of that thunder anyway. I'd be more likely to get a 360 if any of those 5 were supported (I guess JSRF might be? Not the others), but even if they were I can recognize that I'm not the target market here, and most of the juicy 360 stuff (and by that I mean Bioshock and maybe Prey) is hitting the PC anyway. I can't justify a $400 purchase just for 5 titles over the entire lifespan of a system- that's essentially a cost of ~$140 a game, and just not worth it to me.

purplechair · . Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 378 Location: in my pants

JSRF isn't, and that was one of the games that I really wanted to play.

Seriously, if the 360 was backwards compatible, I'd have adopted it as my "primary" system and would have spent money to reflect that. I'd have a Live subscription, a couple of full-price 360 games (Oblivion and DoA4, for instance), half a dozen Live Arcade games and various overpriced peripherals. I'd have spent over £400 by now, not including the cost of the xbox games I wanted in the first place.

Because it's not backwards compatible, I've spent about £100 on a load of second-hand xbox hardware, and will be spending the money I saved on a Wii this Christmas. Instead of getting Oblivion and DoA4, I'll just make do with Morrowind and DoA2U. And I don't have a Live subscription (yet) because it's just not as integral as it is on the 360.

To me, it's not about letting you play games you already own, but letting you play games for the system you didn't buy last time.

Edit: And, coincidentally, I'm currently watching over an eBay auction of Panzer Dragoon Orta and preparing to bidsnipe it in about an hour's time.

Roam Unit · . Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 14

Wilkes · milky wilkie Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 256

My decision to buy or not buy a 360 depended entirely on its backwards compatability heretofore from the system launch. By heretofore, I mean until Microsoft made some sober predictory statement about it; doesn't look like there's going to be one.

So, I guess I'll wait until it's $200 new with a hard drive.

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

ryan · . Joined: 20 Feb 2005 Posts: 999

Moore said they would feel good making 200-300 games backwards compatible. There are already 207 that are right now, so when's the next batch coming? Did I miss a list of upcoming titles that would work or something?

At Qt3 it was mentioned a while back that the team took a break for a bit, but they are apparently back at work. I guess that makes sense if they have another 100 titles to offer up. I would've hoped for more. I would prefer an entire shelf not having to be devoted to the rotund MS brothers.
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SuperWes

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Lockeownzj00 · . Joined: 16 Aug 2005 Posts: 214

Just a note--I'm certainly not on Microsoft's side, but it is interesting how they are ridiculed for their slow and incomplete progress with the emulation process, while independent emulation projects are lauded for their WIPs because we all know that even a glitchy, functioning emulator is still an amazing feat and a step in the right direction.

Granted, Microsoft is a corporation. Which did make promises. An they do have access to all the technology, unlike the independents (who never cease to amaze me by reverse-engineering the systems) who have none. Then again, they aren't robots. Sure, they made a promise, but give 'em a freaking break.

The entire time I wrote this post, I was shocked to find myself asking people to understand Microsoft's plight. But even though I could care less about Microsoft's little toy, I still think they might be unfairly ridiculed in this case. They are under our vigilant scrutiny, no?

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

The big thing here is that those independant emulation programs are not trying to sell me anything (well except Magic Engine... but I don't really belive in that project). There is an important distinction to be made there.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

Wilkes · milky wilkie Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 256

Does anyone else feel like Microsoft is making the consumers decisions for them?

They declare the HD era, effectively saying now is the time to get a Hi-Def display. Now, they're telling guys like me that we don't care about something we actually care a whole shitload about? Goddamn; does this qualify as "reactionary" in any way?

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

Tablesaw · . Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Posts: 303 Location: LACAUSA

Mr. Mechanical · Friendly Stranger Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 1276

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

My PS2 is approaching its last days-- sometimes it doesn't immediately load a game and I need to load it from the menu-- and on rare occasions pop the disc out and reinsert it. So a PS3, given backward compatibility, will replace my dying PS2, just like my PS2 replaced my no longer functioning PS1. If I had to go out and buy a new PS2 to play my 50+ games in addition to buying a PS3 when it comes out, well... let's say that would sour my opinion of Sony somewhat. The PS2's backward compatibility has made me appreciate not having to buy a new PS1 to play all those games again.

Oh well, this is all pretty academic. It's not like I'm likely to buy a 360 ever anyway. Yeah, but I'll definitely be getting a Wii, and probably a PS3.

SuperWes

vf10a · . Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 25 Location: England

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

friedchicken · . Joined: 16 Mar 2005 Posts: 496 Location: Port Land, OR

showka · . Joined: 11 Nov 2005 Posts: 70

This news sucks ass. I was really wanting to bank on the 360, but a big component of all that was that I'd be able to play some of the really cool 360 games I'd missed out on. The idea that Ninja Gaiden Black (which apparently has frame rate drops), Jet Grind Future, Panzer Dragon Ortra, and all those SNK games would eventually be playable made me want to back MS more than Sony in the next generation arms race.

If they hadn't promised backwards compatability, I would not have gotten as excited about the 360. I like the system theoretically, but there's not a single game that would make me excited about owning it. At least, not a 360 game.

I think this argument about hwo you should own all the systems forever because it does the games greater justice is fine as long as you either live in a nice big house or are comfortable enough lugging all that shit around to the end of time. If I had either an X-Box or an X-Box 360 right now, I don't know where I'd put it.

Dracko · . Joined: 10 Oct 2005 Posts: 2613

SuperWes · Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:47 pm Post subject:

vf10a · . Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 25 Location: England

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

Damage Control!
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

helicopterp · . Joined: 13 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: Philadelphia

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

DaleNixon · . Joined: 08 Jul 2005 Posts: 179

Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

DonMarco · . Joined: 02 Mar 2005 Posts: 349 Location: 33903

SuperWes · Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject:

B coma · . Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Posts: 279

Lestrade · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:00 am Post subject:

I think Moore's shitting bricks right about now.

SuperWes · Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:

Looks like the 21 new games have been revealed!

Items of interest are highlighted in bold!

1. 4x4 EVO 2
2. Amped 2
3. Bad Boys 2
4. Big Mutha Truckers
5. Doom 3
6. Dreamfall: The Longest Journey
7. Fatal Frame
8. FlatOut
9. Grabbed by the Ghoulies
10. Intellivision Lives
11. Lego Star Wars
12. Minority Report
13. MLB SlugFest 20-04
14. The Punisher
15. RalliSport Challenge
16. Silent Hill 4: The Room
17. Spawn Armageddon
18. Spider-Man
19. Star Wars Battlefront
20. State of Emergency
21. Zapper

Some of those games are pretty terrible, but hey, I'm surprised to see some of them on there - Silent Hill 4 in particular. I thought that crazy Japanese haxoring was the hardest to emulate.

-Wes
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Shapermc · Hot Sake! Joined: 14 Oct 2004 Posts: 6279

You missed Fatal Frame! Too bad I have the PS2 version.

And... SH4 is good, but I really really want SH2 on there.

Also, can someone tell me why I should be interested in Dreamfall? I ... don't really know anything about it.
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“The average man has a secret desire to be a swaggering, drunken, fighting, raping swashbuckler.”
-Robert E. Howard in a letter to a friend circa Decmber 1932

"There is no place in this enterprise for a rogue physicist!"